Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board The Shave 5-10lbs in Pack weight Challenge

The ultralight craze is funny to me. People spend thousand of dollars to save a few ouces. To me, ultralight is a philosophy. It is a matter of comfort vs. suffering. It is like a tug of war between the two.

One of my old hiking partners lived up to the extreme end of this ultralight philosophy. Three years ago we set out for a three day trip in September and this is what he brought: Daypack with 18oz of peanut butter, bag of chips, three Snicker bars, sleeping bag liner, fleece sweater, long underwear, tarp, I believe a 1-liter plastic Gatorade bottle. We started at Road's End. He went to do Mt. Tyndall and the rest of us did Brewer.

Let's put his gear to the weight test:

BASE GEAR
Backpack - daypack 7oz
If peak-bagging is on the agenda from a base camp- add: -0-

sleeping bag: bag liner 15oz
Big Agnes Air Core Insulated Mummy pad L: -0-
Closed Foam Shorty sit pad: -0-

Black Diamond Lighthouse tent in stuff sack: -0-
Tent poles and stakes in bag: -0-
tarp: 10oz

Fuel, Cooking, Water Containers:
Small MSR Fuel Canister: -0-
Snowpeak Litemax stove: -0-
1L Ti Pot with lid: -0-
Nalgene Wide Mouth camp canteen 96oz: -0-
Gatorate plastic bottle: 2oz
Aquafina water bottle 1L empty: -0-
Ti mug: -0-
MSR Al Bowl: -0-
Plastic Spoon and Fork: -0-
Small wash cloth: -0-
Bear Boxer Bear Canister (only when required): -0-
Kevlar Varmit Bag: -0-

Safety and Emergency gear:
Petzl Tikka Plus with Batteries - headlamp: -0-
Swiss Army Knife: 3oz
Waterproof/windproof matches - 10 in container: 1oz
First Aid (+ spare batteries & emergency blanket): -0-
Bug Spray: -0-
Lens Cloth: -0-
Hard Sunglasses case: -0-

Hygiene:
Sunscreen: 2 oz
Deodorant: -0-
Toothpaste: -0-
Toothbrush: -0-
Handi-wipes: -0-
Floss: -0-
Lip balm: -0-
Hand sanitizer: -0-

Clothes (assume 4 days - not counting clothes on me at the time)
Rain Jacket - XL: -0-
Rain/wind Pants - XL: -0-
Hiking Socks 3/4 - -0-
Underwear: 4.75oz
Kuhl Hiking shorts: -0-
Arc'Teryx T-shirt XXL (1xday x 3 days @ 4.625 oz ea.: -0-
Down Jacket: -0-
Lightweight Long sleeve shirt: 8oz
Lightweight Long johns: -0-
Wool Cap: -0-
Full finger cycling gloves: -0-

What's his gear add up to? 52.75oz.

Was he cold on the trip? Probably. Was he hungry on the trip? Very, judging from what he ate after the trip. Did he accomplish his goal for the trip? Depending on what people define accomplish as. He did not make the summit of Tyndall. I believe he turned back at a certain pass due to snow. How much was he suffering and how much fun did he have? I don't know.

Was he going ultralight? Hell yeah! 52.75oz base weight.

Who's up for the challenge?

edit: At Junction Meadow, he broke the news that he wanted to do Tyndall instead. Seeing how little food and gear he had, I asked how he was going to eat the peanut butter seeing that he doesn't have a spoon. He picked a twig off the ground and smiled...

Yes I like those 5.10 Camp 4 shoes. I've heard that their Guide Tennies are also good but don't hold up as long. My Camp 4's are in their second summer season in the Sierra. The last big adventure they were on was Everest. They were my shoes of choice for the trekking portion of the trip from Lukla to Everest Base Camp and back.


Kevin, for a trip of that size this is just plain not very smart. Besides not being prepared for a storm (yes we all know unforecasted storms DO come to the Sierra), there's no first aid kit. I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark here and wager he's never taken any kind of basic first aid course either. On top of that you had to smell his breath after 3 days with no toothbrush. As his climbing partner why didn't you say anything and get him to carry the gear you know he should have had???

A fad, a philosophy, or an obsession? It's hard to tell from a distance. Spending $400 on a 3lb tent while also carrying a couple pounds of unnecessary items sure sounds counterproductive. On other hand being cold and hungry and eating peanut butter with a stick is probably an example of going light as an end in itself. I know which of those two make me smile more.

I've used previous generation FiveTen approach shoes with those universal aluminum crampons. You could probably strap those thing onto a pair of Tevas. I have little doubt they'd work okay with the Camp Four which is kind of stiff. Of course this all applies to moderate slopes.

The real problem with approach shoes in the snow, aside from the fact that they get wet, is you can't kick steps or edge very well. I find it's usually a good tradeoff when the alternative is big boots in the pack while rock climbing.

I carry a small first aid kit - about 4 ounces. I know some who carry none.

IF one has some first aid training, the logic is this:

• If I get a small cut, I'm not going to die (the very rare infection being an exception). Therefore, whether or not I have a first aid kit won't make a difference.
• If I have a major accident, with severe bleeding and fractures, my first aid kit probably will not have enough of what I need anyway, so I will have to improvise. This could include using the knife to cut bandages from clothing, using branches/tent poles/trekking poles for splints, duct tape, etc. If this doesn't work, I'm probably a SAR case no matter what I have.

NOTE: I DO carry bandaids, 4x4 bandages, tape, Kling, etc. I just don't carry many of each. AND, this does not apply to expeditions like those Kurt would lead. FINALLY, one needs a lot of experience in both backcountry travel and first aid to hope to get away with this.

AsABat, I agree with that stated philosophy.

I tell people I don't carry a kit, but I actually do. Not a commercial kit, but a few odds and ends thrown together, just a few oz, if that.

I think the key is the knowledge. For example, when one thinks of wounds, one thinks of the need of antibiotics. Actually, very unimportant, compared with basic wound care, which most seem not to understand. (flush, flush, flush)

I think if one is in the outdoors a lot, a 16 hour Wilderness First Aid course would be good insurance, if not more than that.

However, for the short trip described, for a medical novice, a commercial FA kit is reasonable, but I think the most useful thing in the kit, is the FA pamphlet.

Hey Kurt,

The acceptance of risk varies widely between different people. What feels safe to one person might not be safe to another. Along the same line, what's enjoyable to one person is not to another. My approach to choosing a hiking/climbing partner is to not change that person's philosophy/style. I try as much as I could to adapt to them. At a point where I reach my tolerance level, I just choose not to hike/climb with the person anymore.

I've shared many adventures with the said person but we are not climbing anymore due to the difference in our acceptance of the level of risk.

Yes I agree that your partners need to have a similar philosophy to yours and if they're very different you shouldn't be climbing partners. Based on that guy's choices I'd say you made a wise decision.



Yes many things can be improvised in the backcountry which is the focus of wilderness oriened first aid courses. And, yes what is appropriate and necessary for the contents of a first aid kit depends on what you are doing.

branches/tent poles/trekking poles, etc. - Branches might be fine if you're below Timberline. The type of accidents requiring the use of splints are just as likely to happen above it though if not more so. For example, if someone slipped and fell off of a section of the Mountaineer's Route. In the case mentioned above these guys were very remote and above timberline. Also, this guy didn't have trekking poles or a tent with poles.

My first aid kit only weighs a few ounces too but I include a SAM Splint for splinting. If something happens up here as an example there isn't much around to help you splint anything.


Final class 3 section on Thunderbolt Peak July 22, 2008

after reading this entire thread i think i beat all of you guys. not because i have lightweight stuff but because i just dont take anywhere near the amount of items you guys take. i am small (135lbs) and i like to move fast. weight makes me tired and slows me down. i dont know how you guys can carry so much stuff

I've been watching this thread with great interest...I have knocked off about 8 lbs on my pack through both learning what I really need (through experience), going "light" when it makes sense, but still remaining practical.

For the record, I'm 47, 5' 4" and 125 lbs. In my younger days, my husband, lovingly referred to as "Burpa the Sherpa," carried the heavy load and I got off easy. Nowadays his hips are shot from college football, and everything that goes into my pack earns it's spot. Also, I get cold easily; I sleep cold and once chilled have trouble getting warm. I layer up early and prepare accordingly to be comfortable, happy, and enjoy the trip--not miserable waiting for it to end. I take a super lightweight down jacket and put it in the foot of my bag at night. I'm a comfort hiker and take my hikes slowly to enjoy the scenery and experience--carrying extra weight doesn't matter with that philosophy (within reason, of course). Also, I like to be prepared, so I'll bring some stuff that many of you think is silly, but it works for me.

I've tried all the ultralight packs and they're just a non-starter for me. The lack of padding on the shoulders and hips makes them down right painful. My pack itself is heavy, by many standards at 5 lbs 3 oz (Gregory Diva 60)--but I love it and wouldn't trade it for the world.

I'm heading for my 4 day, middle aged woman's hike to Mt. Whitney starting next Monday. With all my gear out (checklist in hand), I weighed everything last night with a digital scale (I really do have other things to do, but this topic got me thinking).

Also, this is the pack as I'll start at the trailhead: with water, I didn't see that the other poster's weights included this. At 2.2 lbs a liter..it adds up. In my So Cal mountains, water is scarce, and I frequently carry 4+ liters. From my MW trip last year, I learned there's lots of water along the way.

I've listed weight by category, but detailed some where folks might find it helpful/interesting. Here's the load:

Gregory Diva 60 pack 5lb 3 oz

Clothes 5lb 0 oz
2 t-shirts (yes!!)
underwear 3 pr (yes!)
rain pants & jacket
long johns/top/bottom
wool hat
socks/liners 2 overs 1
gloves (fleece/wool)
Down jacket 10 oz
Camp shoes

First Aid 1 lb 4oz
medications
basic stuff

Bear Canister & Food 5lb 4oz
3.5 trail days
Bearvault 2.4lb empty

Basics 9lb 5oz
Stove & Gas 1.10lb
MSR Windpro
Hiking partner has pan
Cup/bowl/spork
Matches
Tent/REI crysalis w/footprint 4lb
Bag/REI 15 deg/ 2.02 lb
Thermarest 1 lb 9 oz
Steri pen
Empty nalgene
Potty kit & wag bags
Headlamp

Water 4lb 4oz
Camelback with 2 L

Personal Care 1 lb 2oz
Bug Juice
Sun Block
Teeth & Bod cleaner
ipod (yes!)

Grand total 32 lb 6 oz


Stuff on my bod
Hiking poles
Leatherman-sml
Camera
Map
Watch w/compass
Big straw sun hat
Bandanna


I say to each his/her own. I've carried a 40 lb pack and it does slow you down, but at 32 lb, I'm good and can keep up a decent pace, enjoy the experience and have a few creature comforts. I sleep great and toasty and wake up ready for the next day--not just "getting through it" in misery.

This is just another way to approach the journey.

So if you're on the trail next week, you'll see my big straw hat and burgundy pack: Say Hi! See you on the Trail!
Karen

Karen, just for the record, it is generally the habit when comparing pack weights, not to include food or water, in what is called the "base" weight. This allows a person doing a three day hike to compare to someone doing a one day, or a 7 day hike. Also, water varies from hour to hour, so it is somewhat variable, even with the same person, on the same hike.

Personally, I'd not carry more than a quart of water, until above Trail Camp. It's just not needed. I hate becoming a human "uphill water movement and warming device."

Also, although it is highly fashionable, I don't use Nalgene bottles during the summer...they weigh a 1/2 lb, and work no better than a empty quart Diet Pepsi bottle, for about 2 oz, plus I get the Pepsi for free!!

Ken,
Thanks for the 4-1-1 on pack comparisons...makes sense.

Nalgene: I need this to use the steripen to purify the water. I know there are lighter bottles, but the pen doesn't fit in them...any other ideas would be appreciated.

Water weight: I drink a lot of water, 1 liter would probably do it though. Good point, I'll start with less.

When backpacking, my pack weight can range from 23 pounds to 45 pounds depending on the number of days, time of year, and conditions. Most of my stuff is lightweight, but there are certain items I'm just not willing to do without like a comfortable sleeping pad. I bring either an Exped Downmat 7/short when the ground is clear of snow or a Exped Downmat 9 when I think I might be camping on snow. A good night sleep on a pad that is warm and thick works for me. I also usually bring a change of clothes including extra socks - not because I mind being dirty but because I like having the option of changing from cold/sweaty clothes to warm/dry clothes when I stop for the day.

I have been using a Go-Lite Oddessy Pack - it's just over 3 pounds and I've carried as much as 45 pounds in it without a problem. My sleeping bags are Feathered Friends bags and I have been extremely happy with them - I don't think I'd buy a different brand because they are light and warm and have held up well. They also sized to fit the user - my bags are made for women 5'3" and under (I'm not quite 5'2").

I've shaved an extra 10 pounds of body weight off this year, so that's helped me. At this point, I'd rather cut another 10 pounds of body weight than anymore pack weight.

Karen,

When it comes to the water purification issue you'll hear lots of arguments discussed about whether it is even necessary to treat your water in the Sierra. There are many Whitney regulars who don't treat their water at all on the Main Whitney Trail. I do but don't almost anywhere else in the Sierra. You can read this topic to get some more background on this. To answer your question though...

I use a Steri Pen also and don't use Nalgene bottles too much anymore. I've used it on three Kilimanjaro climbs this year and it goes with me on all my Sierra trips. I don't use it myself but I make it available to all my clients I guide who would prefer not to drink straight from the stream or lake.

My bottles of choice are SIGG. Read more about them by clicking here. I switched after the reports of the plastic from Nalgene bottles leaching into the water. There are some contending links to breast cancer among other things. SIGG bottles are lighter than Nalgene's, very durable, and everything I drink out of them tastes great. It also is easy to use my Steri Pen with them. The opening is the perfect size for one. In some ways it even works better because I can even turn the bottle upside down and it won't leak.

Using old soda bottles are light but I still worry about repeated use for the reasons mentioned above even if there's no conclusive evidence yet.

Wingding you got it right. One of the best ways for a lot of people, myself included, to shave 5-10 pounds is to take it off of our bodies rather than sacrificing a lot of comfort by skimping on gear.

Kurt

I've been looking to replace my Nalgene bottles. I also use the Steri Pen and have the filter below (I realize I won't have to use it often). Any recommendations for bottles that would fit this filter?

MC

That looks like the filter that comes with the Steri Pen. I think that only screws on to bottles with a top the size of a Nalgene. That filter is only for sediment. I've never needed to use it. I'd suggest getting SIGG bottles and bringing along a bandana or cloth of some kind and pouring the water through that if you had a lot of sediment to deal with. A little sediment never hurt anybody though.

Thanks Kurt, that's exactly what I'll do (I figured I would rarely need to use the filter).

Sounds like a quote!

Feel free to use it!

Kurt - are there any stores in SoCal that carry the Camp 5.10? I can't seem to find them anywhere except online.

How are they sized? normal, a little small, narrow, wide, tight toe box-lose heal?

As a comparison - Montrails are too tight in the toe box. Vasque fit well. Nike's are usually too loose in the heal.