Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Arrest made in Trailhead and Big Pine Break-ins

Having read Marks post I too would have a problem letting John slide due to possible health problems. I go to the Sierras because I love the mountains and because I don't have much to spend on my vacations. Losing 2k and valuable work time would absolutely kill me financially- sorry Mark!

I guess I want to emphasize "possible health problems" because none of us are capable of diagnosing him as mentally ill. Sure his beliefs are far different from the norm but it is also up to the courts to find him mentally incapacitated. I don't know this info to be true or false but I would say it is unusual for someone this ill to climb the big mountains he has.

There is surely more to this story as most of what myself and other are saying is just speculation. But as I stated in my last post this is horrible for all parties involved.

I'm going to be crude and put the cards on the table: This guy is seriously mentally ill. I would guess he was bipolar or schizophrenic, and went off his meds. I don't like what happened, but it happened.

I have some experience with car issues due to the negligence or willful bad behavior of others. When I was a poor student in Boston, my car was hit 6 times, and was totalled once. The insurance company offered the paltry blue book value, and we chose to rebuild the car ourselves, from junkyard stock and a few new parts. The episode involved 2 months of massive inconvenience, and weighed heavily on my sense of well-being.

Another of my cars was stolen and totaled 5 years ago. The insurance company once again offered blue book value, and I endured a month of travel across town many times to junkyards, adjusters, salvage yards, and endured nastiness from insurance people who really wanted to find complicity on my part.

Edit: The 2nd time around, I was much more at peace, partly because I was determined not to debate with myself what could have been, if only... I just moved on. (end edit.)

Yes, the Owens Valley situation sucks. But you are probably better off thinking that this was the random act of a crazy person, than ruminating angrily on the unjust actions of a sane person.

just make sure your opinion does not clash with the censor

its amazing in todays age that your posts simply go away because you disagree with Steve c side of the story

Well said clamberabout.
MC let me say it again that I hurt for you, your suffering and pain. This was brought about by no deed of your own but by a family whom I am sure you love. There is not enough information for people to judge the circumstances.
I cannot believe the rigid condemnation of some who know nothing about the mental staus and conscious awareness of John.I agree that cars and windows can be replaced but the tragedy and agony of a lost individual is by far more important.

For those that were victims all I can say is "Bummer now get over it and move on." A human life is involved. Lets find out more information about what was going on with him before we find fault and condemm.

oldbob,

While I can't speak for Steve C., he has no "side" in this story any more than the rest of us do or should (except for MC).

While I'm going to withhold my opinion on the topic in general, and on mental illness in particular, I personally thought the final sentence from your deleted post, i.e., "Sure the family must feel horrible; if they feel so bad send the victims the money to make up for the actions of the man." was in extremely poor taste. Additionally, such a sentiment is contrary to what you said in the same post about individuals taking responsibility for their own actions -- that's individuals, not the families of individuals. I'm guessing that your final sentence (quoted above) could have been why your previous post was deleted -- just a guess. It's one thing to state an opposing opinion; it's quite another to hold family members responsible for something/someone over which/whom they have no control nor responsibility.

Respectfully,

CaT

The reason I disagree is because a family member choose to make a point on the site you should be willing to take a different viewpoint.


Then I have to see this type of post
"Bummer now get over it and move on."

ahh I strongly disagree, put the person responsible in jail and the normal law abiding folk will be fine.

You can't commit crimes if you're locked up.

I'm sure people will be up in arms but hey that's my opinion.

oldbob,

I really don't want to belabor the point, but my sense is that you are mixing two issues that are totally separate.

The first issue is the ongoing debate here weighing what I'll paraphrase as "personal responsibility, and so render appropriate criminal justice for deliberate actions" against "mentally ill, and so render appropriate treatment for uncontrollable actions".

This has been debated considerably here, and your opinion is as valid as anyone else's, regardless of what it is, or what Steve C., myself, or anyone else thinks of it.

In contrast, the second totally separate issue is what struck me as your rubbing salt in the wounds of the family by implying that they should volunteer to monetarily repay the victims for the transgressions of their estranged family member. In re-reading MC's posts here, the only overall "point" I saw him make for the family was his gracious apologizing on behalf of someone over whom they had no control. For anyone to take advantage of that is not replying to a point. You were replying to his and others' points until you got to the final part of your sentence that I highlighted in italics in my previous post. At that specific junction in your post, I believe you discontinued "making a point" and ended your post by needlessly rubbing salt in wounds.

I've always felt that there are many ways to say the same thing, regardless of what it is, and in this case, two basic ways: one way is firm but still measured, reasonable, and thoughtful; the other is also firm, but more inflammatory. Although both ways can be straightforward, they achieve vastly different results on many levels.

I'm simply suggesting that when you "shoot from the hip" and express your opinion, you try and do it without needlessly inflaming the conversation -- not by what you say, but by how you say it.

Respectfully,

CaT

I really wanted to just stay out of this - I already deleted my trying-to-funny-DUGism post since I felt it was inappropriate once I realized how close to (my Whitney) home this has hit.

I'm pretty sure that almost everyone here is working with the same set of information. Just what you have heard and what you can get from the papers and web. There are a few with connections to the police and some who might have heard from the family, but mostly we are on the same level info wise. I only have an 80's Midwestern high school education with some advanced Navy training mixed in, but here's what I know:

Cars were broken into and property was vandalized.
A climber named John was ARRESSTED for some of the crimes.
MC is related to John.
John wrote some really wild stuff in a blog.

I feel bad for those who had their cars messed up, had their property damaged or stolen and their lives shook up. No one deserved that. They deserve to be pissed, they deserve restitution, they deserve to want 5 minutes with whoever did it.

John was arrested. He might be the guy. Hell, if they know what they are doing in the investigation, he probably is the guy. BUT - and this is the important part for me - no judge or jury of his peers has said he IS the guy. I know we are all spun up right now, but John is INNOCENT until he is proven guilty. Sorry, that's how it works. Maybe somehow, someway he isn't the guy. Then what? Is everyone who judged him before his day in court going to line up to say they’re sorry?

I don't know MC. I've read her posts, I've checked out her hiking/travel pics and from that I feel safe in saying she's a pretty kewl chick. For this board to do anything other than give her our complete support is insane. This whole deal sucks for her just about as bad (some might say worse) than those who had property damaged. If for some reason you don't think you could say anything positive or supportive to her, then not saying anything might be a good call.

I won't go and call John mentally ill or insane or even a whack job. I don't know him, I haven't talked to him. I’ve never walked a trail with him. I have read about him (good and bad), I've seen his blog. Again, I just have a HS diploma. I don't think that qualifies me to diagnose the man. I'm not gonna party with the guy or hike alone with him, but who knows what's going on in his head?

Can't we just let the system run its course? Can't we tell the victims that we're sorry and we hope it works out for them in the end (even though it will probably never be made right). Telling them to move on or get over it seems pretty crappy, IMHO.

Can't we be supportive of a fellow board member who hasn't done a damn thing wrong?

Can't we wait until someone is convicted before we give them the trash talking they might deserve?

For those of you who got your cars and other property trashed/stolen - I think that sucks and I hope you either get 5 minutes with the guy or at least get it made right somehow.

MC - I don't know you but I wish you and your family the best as you deal with this. It isn't fair and shouldn't happen to anyone. Life sux sometimes.

These opinions are mine and mine alone. Your mileage my vary. Hope to see you on the trail............................DUG

Hi Dug sort of closed this topic to make it clear recall when Tina would do reports and she got flamed for chat chat. Thanks Doug

DUG67 amazingly well stated.I agree 100% with everything you said.
Navy Seal...WOW!!!I was impressed with your trek, now I am totally in awe of you.

Whoa! I AM NOT a SEAL! I am active duty, but I AM NOT a SEAL. Just wanted be clear on that. Those guys and the ones on the ground are my heros. I'm just driving a desk after 4 years on "The Boat".

BTW - NOT a SEAL..............................DUG

DUG67
Sorry my bad. I read advanced Navy training and my mind made up Seal. I was sure I had read that but after going back and re-reading I realized my error.

Anchors aweigh in any case.

Please lock this thread and make it go away. It is very disturbing to me on many levels. It is just sad.