Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board The winners

Calvin Hansen 3 hours 54 minutes 45 seconds , second place 3 hours 58 minutes 17 seconds runner Mike Dragila results of the 1961 Marathon to the summit and back. reported in the Owens Valley Progress - Citizen Sept 15, 1961,

I knew they ran the marathon for several years but had no ideal of the times or winners, always heard the winner was from Colorado , Calvin Hansen was from Colorado Springs Co.

So lets see 1961 time? what is the change from marathon times from then to now are we looking at a range around 3 -20 now if someone was to run it for time or less????

When I see things like this, I start to wonder whether I can beat the time for a ONE-WAY trip, usually downhill. I doubt I could.

1961 was a pretty good year for Hansen. He finished the Pikes Peak marathon outside of his home town in 4:07:15.

http://www.skyrunner.com/ppresults/ppwinners.htm

Some interesting graphs as well.

http://www.arrs.net/HP_PkPMa.htm

In 1961, the world marathon best was 2:15:17, set by Ethiopian Abebe Bikila at the 1960 Olympics in Rome. The current best of 2:03:59 was set in Berlin on September 28 of this year by Ethiopian Haile Gebrselassie. The improvement is 8.35%. The same improvement on Mt. Whitney would bring the time down to 3:38:23.

How many Ethiopians visit Mt. Whitney each year?

MATT CARPENTER 3:36:54 at 2008 Pikes Peak knocks off about 30 minutes from 1961 (adjusted) time.

But not as fast as his 1993 3:16:39 !!

The start is 6,412' with a lift to 14,110

Whitney Portal is 8,361'

I'm guessing the mountain's best are whupping the better world class marathoner's improvements who run on the flat.

In Boston and Bejing they don't have to spend so much time changing gears.

Personally, I think that the amount of improvement in a particular race has more to do with the quality of athlete contesting the race over time than on the difference between flat, sea-level road running and mountain trail running. (I have no proof of this and admit that Steve Peacock could well be right in his claim.)

The women's world marathon best in 1964 was 3:27:45. Today it is 2:15:25. Serious, world class female distance runners started contesting the marathon only in the late 1970s. Hence the huge difference in rate of improvement with men. That difference is narrowing -- the women's record improved by 3.8% over the last decade and the mens improved by 2.2%.

I agree with Steve that flat marathon records may correlate poorly with trail runs.

So.. my question is this... are like trails being compared?

There is a graded road from Manitou Springs all the way to the summit of Pikes Peak at 14110. So.. while these guys may be hauling butt up there.. are they doing it on the nicely graded (albiet dirt) road? Or on the foot trail?

Because if these times are made on the flat vehicle use road and being compared with running the Whitney trail.. unfair comparison...

Just my two cents worth though...

Alan, I think is right on. I liked the Pikes Peak data because of the data (and cool graphs) they keep. Its looking (statistically) quite flat in last decade or if eyeballng maybe even taking longer.

There is a comparison only that it is a marathon run, it goes to over 14,000' and both are on similar types of trails, except that perhaps Whitney is more maintained because it has more traffic, is more popular as well as being a few hundred feet higher. They both have a bunch of switchbacks closer to the top...Whitney has more as most will have experienced. Colorado's marathon starts a bit lower, but the extra oxygen at the lower end may compensate for the steeper (generally) over all trail.

Not sure how much an athlete, at this level, would be bothered by a little more altitude gain. They just put it in gear and start chuggin'.

As for the road up Pikes Peak, they have Indy type car races in the summer that gets the gents up there a lot faster than hiking it. When last I saw it, Louis Unser ran it with a 4 cylinder Offenhauser. Ahhh the good ol' days. But that road is a LOT longer than 12 miles to the top even if it is a bit easier to trot up it.

I responded to a discussion of what the changes in fitness and experience level of the runners of about 40 years ago as compared to now and against how much improvement 'flat lander' marathons have made over similar period. As Alan mentions, it might be cannonballs and coconut comparison tho. 'Normal' marathon runners really suck air on long, ungraded uphills.

But Calvin Hansen made very close to same times in same year on two different runs. Might be able to compare that run in '61 on Whitney with current hill running activity now on Pikes Peak...even if it has been 'normalized' to current trail length.

Couldn't find 40 years of history on Whitney. So Pike's dirt pile was about as close as I could find that could be considered comparable.

Both the 14r's in Colo have trails as well as roads. In Pikes Peak case it is Barr Trail. The caretaker at Barr Camp is a gent Dug should take a hike with.

To clarify: The Pikes Peak Marathon starts in Manitou Springs and goes up a paved road slightly more than a mile before getting on the Barr Hiking Trail to the summit, 13+ miles to the top. The Pikes Peak Highway does not start in Manitou Springs but several miles west near the town of Green Mt Falls. The road to the summit is about 19 miles and you can not walk, run or jog on this road as you will be fined by the Rangers.
Those who run the marathon turn around at the top and finish in downtown Manitou Springs, again running about a mile on the paved road to finish.

I do not know where the Mt Whitney Marathon started, perhaps at the Portal? The Pikes Peak Marathon as noted above starts much lower in elevation than the Portal and the round trip is 26 miles + as compared to what many consider the Mt Whitney trail to be about 22 miles.

I know Matt Carpenter and would anticipate his being able to run from the Portal to the summit and back in under 3 hrs 20 minutes. He won several of the Skyline Mt races at elevations as high as 17,000' and is an altitude runner with extraordinary V.O2 capacity exceeding many Olympic Champion track athletes.

As a postscript, I have run the Pikes Peak Marathon twice and the Ascent, which is only to the top, once.

Badwater 1987 period 53 hours , 1988-1990 Jim Walker 48 hours , mid 90's 35 hours 2000's Russian male, and female both under 30 hours , another runner several years ago 25 hours this year the time was around 24 hours and I notice the runners on the road had spreads of feet not miles, So Alan lets hope we don't get someone from those countries that seem to run a bit faster , If I recall they train on trails and elevation. Or put in a form of a question when was the last major marathon won by an American, could it be a dollar thing that brings out the fast runners.Thanks Doug

CMC and Steve... exactly the information I was curious about. Thanks!!!