Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Trail route whitney 1/4/09

A group of 5 or so of us are planning on taking the trail to the top this January, anyone want to join?

Also, coming from LA where would you recommend to rent snow shoes and crampons?

How far, what type of trip and are you aware you might end up starting at the base of the mountain, which will add 8 miles to a round trip to the summit?

Our plan is to drive as far as we can up the portal road (safely) and spend a day hiking to the portal. A second day will be spent acclimating/short day hike up the mountain before we proceed to trail camp.

Our numbers are down to 4 (pending).

We'll be taking the switchback route from trail camp.

If there is any appreciable snow between now and then the trail will not be an option from Trail Camp to Trail Crest. You will have to re-route up the chute.

It is my opinion, crampons and axe are not the type of things you rent. Most renting do not requisite skills using this gear and it is very easy to get in way over your head...quickly.

We appreciate your concern, however 2 of our group has done Whitney before, the 2 newcomers prefer to rent and try things out before investing a lot of money in equipment.

We were just wondering were would be the best place to rent, rei seems a bit pricey.

Doing Mt. Whitney in the summer is a lot different than doing it in the winter. Does newcomer mean they do not have self-belay or self-arrest skills? If it does, I'd suggest they add a copy of Freedom of the Hills to list purchases for this trip and some practicing before they go.

Many places do not rent this gear due to liability concerns. My guess the best place to rent this gear in SoCal is Adventure 16. I did not realize REI was renting crampons and axes these days.

I hope you will not be put off by expressions of concern by members of this board. The regulars have seen a number of deaths and disabilities over the years, that have commonly involved your scenario, at this time of the year.

There are a number of things that are troubling about your posts. Your group includes two veterans, yet they don't appear to know the potential unfeasability of using the switchbacks, at the time that your group proposes going, would be an example.

The use of an ice axe in the situation that you will be travelling is essential, and it may involve doing a self-arrest, which in many respects is similar to using a parachute. No one would consider it sane to jump out of a plane, without undergoing significant training for hours and hours, before boarding the plane. Yes, you will probably rent the parachute from the company, and no, you cannot use it without supervised training and supervised use. Are those two experienced people committed to spending hours of time supervising the newbies in practicing self-arrest....particularly self-arrest wearing crampons, which most find quite tricky?

It may seem silly to be having these concerns, but the regulars are used to reading the SAR reports of people getting in over their heads, year after year. Better to learn from OTHER people's epics and calamities. Reading "Accidents in North American Mountaineering" involving ice axe and crampons, year after year, is quite sobering about what can predictably happen.

Here is a death, friday, in a similar situation on our sister mountain, Shasta:

http://www.redding.com/news/2008/nov/30/woman-killed-climbing-mt-shasta/

And the local discussion board discussion (typical) of it:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=734060

My favorite comment: "Ascending Avalance Gulch often involves the popular game "Bowling For Climbers". Putting oneself in this zone sans helmet is an activity best practiced by those without dependents."

Best of luck on the mountain, whatever you decide to do.

what makes you assume the trail route will be impassible

Every year the 97 Switchbacks, from Trail Camp to Trail Crest, are passable until the first major winter storm occurs. Afterward, the only feasible way is up the snow chute wbtravis and Ken mentioned. (The problem is that much of the terrain the switchbacks are on exceeds 45º in steepness, and is even vertical in one section. The snow chute is only 30º for most of the way, reaching about 35º near the top.) Then, in June or so, the snow covering the switchbacks has melted sufficiently and they become passable again.

So the question is, when does that storm usually hit? Rarely as early as September; most frequently October or November; almost always by December. It hasn't come yet (although there is already enough snow from smaller storms to deter most folks), so this is an uncommon year.

In almost 40 years of climbing this mountain in the winter, there have been only two times I can remember when the switchbacks were still passible as late as the first week in January.

So it is a probabilistic call, and the odds are against you.

A warning about the snow chute: There is a section about halfway up that is always harder/icier than that above or below. A slip can result in crashing into the boulders at the bottom. There have been a number of fatalities here.

The good news about the snow chute: Many people with minimal winter mountaineering experience negotiate it every year, without incident. Minimal experience, in my opinion, means having used crampons before, and having practiced ice ax arrests enough to instinctively react correctly if you find yourself falling. How much practice? This is not rocket science. A few years back, I took my son, his uncle, and his friend up--neophytes all. A half hour of instruction from an expert (me) at the bottom of the slope, and I felt they were ready. We did the climb without incident.

But the snow conditions are a factor, and they depend on the time of day, and the season. Any instruction on cramponing, ice ax use, and the decision whether to continue or retreat, must include this topic.

This sounds like a recipie for disaster. Learning to self arrest and to use crampons is something not to learn a day before heading up a mountain that does NOT forgive.

As Bob R said in a lot of words...experience. Just as Ken and I have talked about experience with cold, elements and gear.

I've been up to Trail Camp many times during the winter and I have watched people hit the wall at cables...literally. I've seen people climb down from above...which is a pucker filled experience or hike back down from below to enter the chute.

Let me paraphrase Kennyhel77...where are you going to rent self-belay and self arrest skills? BTW, I have used these on this mountain a few times to belay and arrest falls.

You might ask, why some many of us are trying to discourage you? Well, many of us have either read many of morbid trail reports, seen or have had accidents on this here mountain and we do not want to see another one. I will tell you this, if you rent this gear go up the mountain the odds are very much in your favor you will not be injured, maimed or killed.

To paraphrase you...what makes you think we don't know what we are talking about?

I didn't mean to insult you

In fact, I asked questions here because i assume you guys know more about Whitney than most.

Does this mean that only the MR is possible in january?

Hello -

I am considering taking a brief day hike to the lower portion of the main Whitney trial tomorrow 12/7/2008... since this would be my first time to Whitney I am calling this more of a "meet and greet" vs an actual attempt to the summit.

My plan currently is to drive in from Los Angeles tonight and sleep over night. Then about 5AM start upwards towards.
the summit... again no intentions of summiting I simply do not have the gear (crampons and ice axe)

With that stated i would like to get peoples thoughts of I should attempt this or not.

Thanks
Ed

Yes, you should go! Just be aware that it will be cold -- overnight in the 20s at the Portal, and high in low 40s. You will encounter snow on the trail, but enough people have been up that you should find a packed path.

Get up as far as you feel safe, and enjoy the scenery.

You can see in this thread that many would warn you about trying to go too high without more experience and equipment.

Ken - wbtravis - relax a bit with the preaching. You make a lot of assumptions based on a two sentence original post.

Look at Bob's response. He offers useful information without bias or judgment.

For all you know, of the four people in s8weasels post, maybe two of them are professional mountain guides with 20 years experience each guiding in the Himalaya and the Alps. The two "newcomers" maybe experienced in other outdoor pursuits but are looking to get into more winter mountain travel with their two experienced guide trained buddies?

Every year "guides" on Whitney are teaching their clients self-arrest techniques above Upper Boy Scout Lake the night before they go up to the summit. You can't be experienced unless you have experiences. (as you noted in your blog wbtravis about glissading while wearing crampons)

Or, they could be 4 dolts from the flat-lands who don't know a glacier from snowfield.

Point is, you don't know.

Why not just tell them to rent from Adventure 16 or REI and wish them well or offer some helpful beta like Bob did instead of being a doom and gloom character in a Verizon ad?

I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just sayin' to ease up a bit on the preachin'.

If professional guides are asking questions of unknown people on a website, I'm not sure I want to characterize that, other than as hard to fathom.

Bullet, you may choose to be an enabler of dangerous things by people who don't appear to know better, but you will excuse me if I choose another path. Knowledge was sought, opinions were given.

I'm personally bothered by folks entering into situations where SAR ends up having to risk their lives doing a rescue. I think this board has averted a number of epics and probably deaths in the last few years, through aggressive education.

Those who don't want to listen, won't. Those who may have some uncertainties, may be deterred. I know that some have been, because they have posted so.

If I've offended you, well, sorry.

You are not insulting, you are just not listening to folks who know what they are talking about and have seen the results of folks doing things that exceed their skills.

A few years ago, at the trailhead and entrance of the John Muir the Inyo placed a sign..."People Die Here" because they do in numbers they should not.

No, it doesn't mean the necessarily MR is the only way but if you have the skills, clothing and gear it might be the best way.

Bullet,
I definately don't think wb and Ken are preaching. They are offering helpful information based on personal knowledge and experience.If someone wants to listen and heed it or ignore it that is their choice.Knowledge is power and ignorance is not bliss.
The fact someone is asking questions on a message board reagarding technical issues during the Sierra winter makes advice and caution to them a good idea.

Bullet,

The two others members of the could be just about anything. s8weasels had plenty of opportunities to say just that. Hmmm...if they were Himalaya guides, why he picking our brains?

I know I wished I did without that particular experience you mentioned.

The point is...s8weasels came here with here with questions that begot more questions.

You must have missed my telling s8weasels about rentals at A16 and giving him the following useful beta...the road could be impassible; therefore, plan on hiking 8 more miles than during the summer and rerouting up the chute because the 97 Switchbacks might be blocked.

Oh We forgot about the trip report now it's a pissing match. Thanks Doug