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Back to the regular program: When I give talks on this subject, I emphasize that to get from 45 to 15#, does not happen in a day, it is the product of much experimentation. It runs something like this: I favor having a checklist. When you are done with a trip, go through the checklist, and really consider what you've not used, or used JUST BECAUSE it was there. (leave the first aid out of the analysis). I would suggest then, on the next trip, leaving out ONE thing, and perhaps altering ONE technique. I was frankly blown away by the elimination of hot food. I tried one day out of three cold, then two, then three. Now I go four. Since I only heat water, if I'm going to where a fire is legal (I always have one), I'll have hot stuff, but I use the fire for heating the water. Frankly, it gives a sense of enhanced freedom, that I'm not tied to the stove. Sleeping pads were a problem, because in the backcountry, you are committed. However, I often sleep at a trailhead before heading out, and it gives me a chance to try a tent, sleeping bag, and pad systems. someone mentioned knives. I only carry the basic Swiss Army version, 1 oz: swiss army knife
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Ok, Ken, I like the idea. Tell us what you do for cold dinners.
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Hi folks,
I have been reading this post and have learned a lot.. I am just a "day hiker" preparing for a August 21st attempt at Whitney but this thread has made me rethink my own pack and contents.
I hiked Telescope Peak on Wed and my pack seemed awful heavy carrying 3 liters of water and all the stuff I thought I should have...
After the hike the following day I got out the scale and went through my pack.
What I learned: I had to much of the same stuff.
Knife in the pack and also carried a knife in my pocket..1 gone now
4 different things/types of TP..downsized to what I might need in a day not a month!
3 boxes of matches..1 box of waterproof now
Notebook and Pin- I have my hiking log on my CPU now and keep 1 sheet of paper and pencil in my pack.
Cut back on bug wipes- Once again I'm only out for a day hike!
I also trimmed back on all the different carrying bags for all the "little stuff"
In the end I shaved about 1 and 1/2 pounds off of my day hike pack but its better than nothing.
I also realized I take to much stuff to eat and bring most of it back so there is also a savings in weight there.
Now my Camelbak "Rim Runner" weighs 5 pounds (less the 3 liters of water and food stuffs) that is with all my essentials, rain gear, gloves, hat, head lamp etc..
Thanks for the tips and I will continue to work on it!
Ron
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Like I've seen mentioned,lose a little body weight instead then carry what you want.I've lost 249lbs so I pretty much carry whatever I think I might need,microwave,small generator,recliner.
Just kidding about the appliances.Really..About 6 years ago when I started backpacking again my first couple of weekend trips I was carrying 45-50lbs but since then through attrition,updating and replacing I'm down to around 25-30lbs.There are so many places to trim weight it seems that everytime I go somewhere my pack gets lighter.And like anything else,to go lighter makes your wallet lighter too
"Atleast I have a Peak named after me"
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I'm still working on the "trimming of the body weight" thing!!
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Bullet, you mentioned how your sleeping bag fit in the pack. One thing I started doing some time ago, was getting rid of stuff sacks. I find that the sleeping bag fits much better in the pack, and I find that when I'm going ultralight, that space is not an issue at all, and I have more options in that direction.
I took your advice and took my bag and tent out their stuff sacks. I stuffed the bag into the bottom of the Vapor trail, the laid the tent over the top of that. This accomplished three things: 1) It gave the Vapor Trail some better structure which better supported the load above it. 2) Actually took up less room than with the items in the stuff sack. I can only attribute this to the more fluid fit of the loose bag stuffed in the bottom of the pack. It filled the space better. 3) I get to ditch 2 stuff sacks I think the Vapor Trail is going to work if used this way. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Kurt - are there any stores in SoCal that carry the Camp 5.10? I can't seem to find them anywhere except online.
How are they sized? normal, a little small, narrow, wide, tight toe box-lose heal?
As a comparison - Montrails are too tight in the toe box. Vasque fit well. Nike's are usually too loose in the heal. Im not kurt, but i can answer your question. I bought mine from Threshold, its a climbing gym in riverside. I dont know where you are located, but im pretty sure REI or A16 would carry them. If you in the riverside area, let me know and ill give you directions to Threshold.
What is above knows what is below, but what is below does not know what is above. Thats why i climb!
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Kurt - are there any stores in SoCal that carry the Camp 5.10? I can't seem to find them anywhere except online.
How are they sized? normal, a little small, narrow, wide, tight toe box-lose heal?
As a comparison - Montrails are too tight in the toe box. Vasque fit well. Nike's are usually too loose in the heal. Im not kurt, but i can answer your question. I bought mine from Threshold, its a climbing gym in riverside. I dont know where you are located, but im pretty sure REI or A16 would carry them. If you in the riverside area, let me know and ill give you directions to Threshold. Where are you located Bullet? I'll find out where the closest place is who stocks them.
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Where are you located Bullet? I'll find out where the closest place is who stocks them.
Anaheim Hills. I'll check out Threshold in Riverside that 2dtrail recommended. Neither A16 or REI carry them.
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Ok, Ken, I like the idea. Tell us what you do for cold dinners. I'm very partial to the tuna/salmon/other things, now packed in foil packages. I find that I still have appetite for them, and in fact, really seem to like that a lot more than the hot things I've used in the past. They really seem to hit the spot. The first day or two, I may go the salami/cheeze/bread route, as well. I like simple.
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Very fun discussion. I have not seen it mentioned but perhaps most of you are familiar with the "Gear Weight Calculator" found at: http://www.backpacking.net/featured3.html It is an excell-based program you can download for free. It provides a spreadsheet in which you create categories--sleeping, clothes, gear, cooking, etc. Under each category you insert your backpacking items and their weight. Then simply go down the list and check the box of the items you plan on taking. The spreadsheet provides a running total of the weight. The user can play with different combinations of clothing/gear to figure out base weight fast and easy. The list can be printed, emailed, etc. I use it as my overall check list for the trip. Its very cool! I even got slick and created entries at 1/2 or 1/4 weights for items that will be shared with anothers, such as first aid. I also created a category of weights for my filled water containers so that if I want to know full weight totally loaded I have it. Excuse me, I think my "geek" is showing...
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Thanks for the link! MC 
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The ultralight craze is funny to me. People spend thousand of dollars to save a few ouces. To me, ultralight is a philosophy. It is a matter of comfort vs. suffering. It is like a tug of war between the two.
I think this is a great point. Going ultralight can mean missing out on some of the great joys of Mountaineering. One of my favorite summit traditions is a whole, fresh Avocado! I also love warm meals at night. The energy you GAIN from a warm meal (not to mention it's byproduct: better sleep) is far greater than that which you would expend or lose by carrying those few extra ozs/lbs. I also like to try and drink a quart of water per hour, mostly cuz the water (unfiltered!) is so good, but also, at this rate, the clarity and quality of my pee probably becomes better than the tapwater at home! And at this consumption rate I can usually pee within 15 minutes of drinking, which makes me feel so fresh and healthy!!! So I don't mind carrying a few Nalgene quarts...extra weight, sure, but do I feel great at the end of the day? For sure! Another thought regarding the "balanced" approach to Ultralight, save weight on what you put in the pack, not the pack itself. Don't compromise a poor suspension/padding/ventilation system just to be ultralight...or again, your efforts to try and "save energy" by going ultralight will be cancelled out by the soreness and lousiness you feel at the end of the day from an uncomfortable pack. Find a pack like the JanSport Whittaker LR (2007 BackPacker Editor's Choice), which has one huge deep chasm for all your gear, but no frilly pockets, organization, daisy chains, etc, yet really comfortable, strong suspension and padding. The next step would be to drop the removable lid off your pack...just don't drop the good suspension! I went to a ultralight seminar at A16 a few years ago given my Glen Van Peski of Gossamer Gear. He went over his sleep system, which was a very small closed cell pad and a quilt. He was asked what do you uses a a pillow? His answer was his boots. The follow up question was, How do you sleep? His reply, was not very well. My conclusion was I'd rather a good night's sleep; therefore, I carry a Big Agnes Air Core mattress and use my Feather Friend Hyperion Jacket as a pillow rather have it supplement my sleeping bag. This is not to say I haven't reduced my pack weight in the last ten years, I have by at least 20 pounds...and my wallet by an equal amount.  You need to figure out what works for you.
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[
I went to a ultralight seminar at A16 a few years ago given my Glen Van Peski of Gossamer Gear. He went over his sleep system, which was a very small closed cell pad and a quilt. He was asked what do you uses a a pillow? His answer was his boots. The follow up question was, How do you sleep? His reply, was not very well.
I know, and have talked to Glen quite a bit (spent a couple of days with him this spring.) I'm not sure that the answer you understood him to give, was what you think it was. I believe that Glen is one of those folks that just does not sleep well outdoors, no matter what the gear, and that was what he was answering. I could be wrong, though. However, I'll say that most UL technique backpackers that I know sleep well. I would agree that sacrificing good sleep is a mistake, but that is not what most people are talking about when they talk about going light.
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..., save weight on what you put in the pack, not the pack itself. Don't compromise a poor suspension/padding/ventilation system just to be ultralight...or again, your efforts to try and "save energy" by going ultralight will be cancelled out by the soreness and lousiness you feel at the end of the day from an uncomfortable pack.... I only agree to a point. I have a great, durable, huge, comfortable Lowe pack. It lets me carry up to 60 pounds without any undue pressure points- but still I would estimate that I have over 20 pounds on my shoulders. The thing weighs 7 pounds though. I've been carrying 20 pounds (water mostly) for training hikes with a big daypack which doesn't have a hipbelt- my shoulders are fine with that. My new pack (Six Moon Designs Starlight) weighs 31 ounces, has a pretty nice frame and suspension system, and saves 5 pounds from the Lowe. With a base load of 15-17 pounds my total weight for a week will start at under 30. You don't need a 7 or 5 pound pack to carry 30. I don't expect the new pack to last 20 years like the Lowe, but I'll trade 5 pounds of weight savings for shorter life. On sleeping- Not wanting to buy new sleeping gear this year I am faced with a 13 ounce foam pad or 27 ounce 2" Thermarest LE and 28 ounce 40 degree zipperless bag or 50 ounce 15 degree mummy. The heavier two items add about 3 pounds but I've decided a warm soft bed will give me more energy through rest than it takes to carry.
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branches/tent poles/trekking poles, etc. - Branches might be fine if you're below Timberline. The type of accidents requiring the use of splints are just as likely to happen above it though if not more so. For example, if someone slipped and fell off of a section of the Mountaineer's Route. In the case mentioned above these guys were very remote and above timberline. Also, this guy didn't have trekking poles or a tent with poles.
My first aid kit only weighs a few ounces too but I include a SAM Splint for splinting. If something happens up here as an example there isn't much around to help you splint anything.
I guess I didn't read it far enough. For climbing in this sense carrying a splint makes sense. For those hiking the trail there may still be other options. I have seen some great splints using sleeping pads, both closed cell and inflatable. Some day packs could also work. A friend used to be with the SDMRT. His first aid kit for a day hike was about 4 pounds.
Last edited by AsABat; 07/29/08 07:29 PM.
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I've tried all the ultralight packs and they're just a non-starter for me. The lack of padding on the shoulders and hips makes them down right painful. Have you looked at the ULA packs? www.ula-equipment.com/ They have some nice padding on the straps and backpanels - probably not as much as the Gregory but then again with a total weight of 30 pounds not as much is needed. Oh, just checked that site and it looks like Brian is hiking until December, so no orders until then. Don't worry, he is a great guy and extremely trustworthy.
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[
I went to a ultralight seminar at A16 a few years ago given my Glen Van Peski of Gossamer Gear. He went over his sleep system, which was a very small closed cell pad and a quilt. He was asked what do you uses a a pillow? His answer was his boots. The follow up question was, How do you sleep? His reply, was not very well.
I know, and have talked to Glen quite a bit (spent a couple of days with him this spring.) I'm not sure that the answer you understood him to give, was what you think it was. I believe that Glen is one of those folks that just does not sleep well outdoors, no matter what the gear, and that was what he was answering. I could be wrong, though. However, I'll say that most UL technique backpackers that I know sleep well. I would agree that sacrificing good sleep is a mistake, but that is not what most people are talking about when they talk about going light. No Ken, he was very clear. The question and follow up are what I stated and practically the only thing I remember from the seminar. His set up, in my view, was uncomfortable, a very small pad and his pack to replace a full pad and boots as a pillow. I don't have a problem with ultralight backpacking. It is just not for me at this time. As I move further towards geezerdom, I'm sure I will start to eliminate stuff like the bottle of wine, Kahlua and a few other amenities I choose to haul up the trail with me.
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Thanks for the clarification.
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Osprey makes a great product. I just got an Aether 85 this past winter an loaded it up with about 70 pounds for a 5 day in March. It ranks as the nicest pack I've carried with such a big load in it. I'd use it for McKinley or other big trips when I have to carry big loads. Kurt, do you or any others have thoughts on the Aether 85 vs. the GoLite Odyssey? Both are about the same volume, but the Odyssey is 3 lb 8 oz and the Aether 4 - 15. I’ve read good things about the suspension system on each. There is a cost difference, but cost is immaterial to me. Weight is not. Reason I ask: My $$ Kelty Phantom (Spectra) is 3 - 12 in the mode I usually use for winter climbs, but has never been comfortable. I think it’s a suspension issue. Total weight is ~35 lb if I'm carrying my snowshoes, crampons, ax, plus share of tent and other group gear. I just got back from Mt. Gould, and my shoulders were killing me. With this reminder, I am finally looking for a replacement.
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