Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Cell phone signal on crest?

Well, this is a little embarrassing to ask, but NPS may have need this summer to send and receive reports via cell phone. What are people's experience with getting a signal along the crest from south of Langley to Kearsarge Pass? If you've got exact locations you've been able to carry on a decent call, I'd appreciate it. I know the summit of Whitney usually works. Other places?? Also, we might use an external antenna, even a Yagi if necessary.

If anyone knows the exact locations of cell towers in the Owens Valley or the Inyo range, that would be great too. I could generate a coverage map from that.

Several rangers now carry Satellite phones, but the signal (Iridium) rarely lasts more than about 3 minutes and you can't send files -- I don't think. If any of you techno dweebs know, I'd appreciate more information...).

Many thanks,

George

Hi George, sure glad you posted the question here. I hope everyone who has any cell phone experience while in the Sierra will post. (For those who don't know, George is a Sequoia N.P. backcountry ranger. Last summer, he was working out of Charlotte Lake, just west of Kearsarge Pass.)

I carried my Sprint cell phone on the JMT last summer, and was only able to make a call from the top of Split Mountain. There is no service from anywhere along the JMT, except for the passes. I have been on other hikes where I was able to get out at Kearsarge Pass and Forrester Pass. My son was able to put in a call from Pinchot Pass several years ago. I have also been able to connect from the Pear Lake hut, or at least on the slope just to the west.

From what I have seen on the forum, Verizon users have the best connection success. I have Sprint service.

There is another issue, however. I believe the cellular network discontinued analog coverage last summer, and all the connections I have made were made when the phone switched to analog mode. So digital coverage may be worse.

I have a friend who hiked part of the PCT last year, and he rented a satellite phone. He spoke of the disconnection problem, and stated that whenever he had a cloudless view of the sky (southern, I believe), that he could easily use the phone. And as soon as a cloud moved into the way, the connection was lost.

Just one thing to add: When you talk to the Seki people, PLEASE put a good word in for this message board and other forums. The message board is a valuable resource of many people who could be a definite asset to the NPS. Unfortunately, the resource is rarely used, and I believe it is due to some of the NPS people regarding this board as "just a chat room".

George, my recollection is that people in my party were able to connect from the top of Trail Peak and Muah Mtn, but nowhere on the PCT, itself. I vaguely recall from Kearsarge Pass, Shepard Pass, but cannot vouch for that.

The other logical place, Forester Pass, I don't believe I had a phone the times I've been there, but I'd be surprised if they worked.

AsABat seems to be one the repositories of antenna info, don't know if he knows locations of cell towers. He often posts here.

George, funny you should post this question. The PCT through-hikers are having a discussion about cellphone coverage over on their listserv.

It turns out that one person is collecting this information, for the entire trail.

http://www.pctmap.net/cell/index.html

Sadly, it documents no coverage in the areas mentioned, other than where already mentioned (if there).

No, I only have some info on 2-meter ham radio repeaters, and only for voice. My list is at www.qsl.net/aa6j/pct. There might be some packet (data) activity in the Owens Valley IIRC. Rick Sanger is also a ham and might have some ideas.

I second Halfmile's list of cell coverage locations, but it is still a work-in-progress.

Verizon consistently does better in rural areas in part due to their ownership of both long and short wavelength spectrum. Most of the other phone companies only have spectrum in the higher frequency (shorter wavelength) spectrum. Longer wavelength radio signals travel further and require less energy on both the phone and tower. Less energy means more calls can be supported without interfering with each other. They might have more towers out there too.

Hi I have made calls from the North fork below Lower Boys scout lake from lbsl and near upper and the ridge e/o Iceberg, also from the chute and from the Summit also from the summit down to trailcrest if I climb and get line of sight to the Owens Valley , Service that sells the ideal of no roaming charge most often blocks calls using another carrier so Choice #1 is Verizon
we have used this for many years and #2 is Alltel which is worthless but if you are lucky may work , I just got a letter that says they were joined with Verizon BUT not this area. When the shift was made to Digital we found are accounts were from a Reno area and the service was from another company and a different signal system was used that may not work with all phones.


So from the Crest to the North if you can see into Owens Valley have Verizon and not a very hot day (bounce) you should have service, the range for digital is about 10 miles and depending on tower angle you can be in that zone, also small booster add ons can get you more milage.


We have spent thousands on this crap over the last 15 years , but have made many calls out for SAR and able to talk with SAR when no other system worked.


Check power output from the phone also very critical and may vary from phone to phone so have a service center check out put signal strength . Thanks Doug

Last summer I had a US Cellular phone with me - roaming in the area, so no idea what provider it was using. after Tuolumne Meadows, I had a signal only on Donohue pass and a little below (Mammoth area in line of sight) and then 1000 feet below (east) of Taboose Pass when hiking out. Nowhere else on the JMT and or any of the passes we crossed. Nothing near Lake T Edison, nothing on Muir, Mather, Silver, Selden passes.

I realize that cell phones are a great convenience and that, in some cases, they have saved lives, even in the backcountry. However, there is a silver lining to lack of service. A great plus of doing the JMT a couple of years back was being able to tell co-workers that there was absolutely no cell phone service where I was going, so don't even think about trying to reach me. It'll be a sad day when it is no longer possible to say that.

Verizon is pretty good about having signal, but if your phone is not a good broadcaster or the battery isn't very strong you might have trouble dialing out. I was able to place a call from the North Fork in late December, but last August when on the peak I had a very strong signal coming from town yet was unable to place a call. Myself and others in the same boat felt is was our phones that could not generate a signal to reach the tower which was 15? miles away, even with the strong signal coming out of town.

Even if signal was as strong on the entire length of the JMT as it is in down town Flagstaff, or some California town of equal or greater significance, I think the battery on the phone would last no more than a few hours if talking during that time. Therefore, I think you can still tell co-workers to not call since you wouldn't have a phone to talk on after a day or two and it would be best to leave if for an emergency.

That seems like a realistic view. I was getting a bit carried away and imagining a cell phone tower on every pass in the Sierra. I hope we don't take it that far!

If your goal is to consistently have communication capability, you might consider a hand held 'ham' radio. My son has one and researches the repeater frequencies 'hittable' in the area he/we are hiking in. It is amazing to me to hear him talk to people all over the place. This is not the radio he has, but has lots of the same features;
http://www.keenzo.com/showproduct.asp?M=UNIDEN&ID=873081&ref=GB
p.s. a license is involved, but the test is fairly easy, esp. if you have the proper study guide, and the cost is nominal

I'd imagine if you'd contact the major carriers; they could help you with specific coverage like this. Especially coming from the NPS and not just some dude.
Asking individuals like here will give you better real world data than an engineer in an office might say.
A good system for charging would be key as well. I'd imagine that a solution similar to whatever you've been using for radios may work.
Is this due to poor radio coverage; or an expansion into data that radios can't handle?

Your link is to a scanner, not a radio.
This is my radio for hiking:
Yaesu VX-6

Asa, shows how much I know, leave the com. to my son. Thanks for the correction.................steve

Everyone:

Huge thanks for all that advice & observations. The ranger is a supervisor and wants to stay the whole season in the backcountry rather than have to go out for necessary reports etc. As such, a ham radio won't work. Rick Sanger is the only ranger who regularly uses his Yaesu to hit both Ham frequencies and packet (??) for phone relay use. He sold me his old radio, but I've never tried it for that.

The Onion Valley packer says you can also hit a cell a couple of switchbacks below Onion Valley. I also talked to a hiker who's phone beeped into activation a few trail switchbacks above, though he didn't use it to call. When everything was analog, I was able to get out from Kearsarge Pass (once, in the early 90s with a 3 watt phone), but that was years ago and I've never tried since.

From everyone's suggestions, looks like the best bet is to find a view of Owens Valley from the Crest and try. The PCT collection is great. I might try to map places myself this summer. I'm pretty sure, though, that you'd have to be on the Crest or way over on the west side of anything to work (Pear Lake, for instance, I know works). North/South passes are all too far over the crest to work, I would think.

As another note, I was hugely leery of cell phones when they first appeared. Figured they'd be 1) an intrusion on wilderness and 2) we'd get all sorts of wimpavac requests. That hasn't proved to be the case -- a few, but they're the exception. What mostly happens is that people are semi in trouble on Whitney, then their battery goes dead in mid sentence: "help, I'm on Whit". What's a ranger to do? Still, they've probably gotten timely help as well as given us a better idea of what's needed, even to just telling the person they can hike down 2 miles to get help.

Doug:


Is that for a specific radio frequency, or do you mean phones?

Again, thanks everyone! (I also just found I've got an old email for notification, so I just changed that. Should be able to track answers better...)

George

PS: You can get out from Ostrander Ski Hut in Yosemite, though you've got to hunt around for a signal.

No, packet is like the old internet without the graphics. Think Usenet. It can be used to do reports, even set up templates, but IIRC it all has to be text format. I've seen it done at air shows to log and report lost children, but I've never really worked with it myself.

Ham is limited to non-business use, but in an emergency anything goes.

BTW, Rick bought his Yaesu VX-5 right after he saw mine above Charlotte Lake almost 10 years ago and he compared it to the brick-sized radio he was carrying. Tell him AA6J says hi.

I looked at the PCT doc and it didn't mention if there was service around Glen Pass - last summer I met a PCT hiker at Reds Meadows who told me he had service there. I don't recall what carrier he used nor did I make it that far south on the trail to verify. I know for sure there is no service on Mather pass, or right on top of Taboose.

And what about Kearsarge Pass or slightly below it on the Owens Valley side? I got a signal just below Taboose Pass last year when going down, around 10,000 feet.

Basically, I am trying to figure out if I will be able to contact somebody in Owens Valley when I get to Glen or Kearsarge to come up to Onion Valley and meet me there for resupply.

Fish, if you read above, people have talked about getting a signal from Kearsarge. There is nothing at Glenn, since there is no view of the Owens Valley. Get a Verizon phone if you want the most cell access in the Sierra -- that seems to be the strong consensus.

Here is my JMT report, with a 360 YouTube video from Glenn Pass at the bottom: http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~stevec/JMT_08.htm