Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board GPS blamed in boy's death

The MRA Lister (MRA = Mountain Rescue Association, national organization to which CLMRG belongs) is an email system set up to alert mountain SAR teams to things of common interest. Getting coverage lately has been the sometimes-false information from satellite locating devices. That was brought to focus on this board in June, when a PCT hiker in trouble used her SPOT. It placed her in the area of Hogback Creek, when she was actually south of Horseshoe Meadow--15 miles away--and valuable SAR resources were wasted before the error was corrected.

Anyway, this link just came through the Lister: GPS blamed in boy's death. Whether that will stand up to scrutiny is to be determined, but the following quote in the news release stood out to me:

"A GPS does not replace a map, a compass, checking in at the visitor center and letting people know where you're going to be," (DV NPS Chief Ranger) Pennington said.

Many of us preach this concept to new and not-so-new Whitney aspirers, to little avail. My perception is that there are still many who think "I don't need a map and compass. I have my GPS, PLB, FRS, cell phone, lucky charm, _____(insert any other high tech device you want)."

GPS units don't kill people. People do.

Of course I agree with Bob (and Chief Ranger Pennington). People get into trouble by relying on devices instead of preparation and common sense.

A "faulty" GPS may get you to someplace you didn't want to go - but the basic requirement of desert / wilderness travel is to: a) Have a Plan B and emergency Plan C to revert to when things don't go as planned.
b) Have the common sense to recognize the need for (a) sbove.

there are aspects of the story that do not "add up"
who camps in Death Valley in summer?
if a GPS directed you onto a dirt road (or a cliff) would you follow?

This topic is being discussed on summitpost. Link below in case anyone wants to read.

It seems the mother is receiving harsh criticism from SP members.

I think the real blame is the lack of planning not just the GPS.

http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=47378

-Rudy

headline should read

"Stupid parent blamed for boy's death"

As parents, my wife and I we were heartbroken when we saw this news report. Anyone with a child knows the pain and helplessness of another.

Common sense is lost in dependency on tech toys and even blind faith in what someone else tells you. This leads to dangerous and fatal mistakes. This woman, a nurse, had nice trip planned with her boy. She was depending on GPS for road directions, why not?

The issue is that most vehicle GPS road directions fail when off road. They start pointing in directions that are impossible to travel by car, sometimes give directions that go in circles and contrary to the actual nearest road or desired destination. News reports pop up every once in a while about people following the GPS in a car and ending up completely isolated and lost. GPS does not replace navagational skills with a map and looking up to see where you are once in a while.

This is a sad story.

I believe that there is a trend towards false security with the mainstream introduction of GPS, SPOT, etc. "I have SPOT, so now I can hike Desolation by myself" or "I have GPS, so who needs to carry a map?" The marketing of these devices does lend greatly to this complacency, and sadly, so does laziness.

B

My understanding is that they were intending to camp in Thorndike Camp up past the Charcoal Kilns. Temps would be considerably cooler - so that was not necessarily bad.
But still this is a tragedy that could have been avoided.

As far as who camps in Death Valley in the summer; I would say about 50,000 European tourists every year - they can have it. DV is too hot for me until about October-May.

Justified or not, this looks like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Last spring we watched the last stage of the Tour of California near Escondido. Fearing heavy traffic leaving the area, I plotted a backcountry escape route leading to I-5 from Google maps. One of the "roads" turned out to be a farmer's gated, locked, dirt road. I learned the hard way that Google is putting everything that resembles a road on their maps whether it is a public road or not. The GPS manufacturers may be doing the same thing. It looks like these electronic maps are not reliable.

And I am pretty sure the manual of those road-centric GPS devices tells you about that. I know real men don't read manuals, but did this nurse?

Sad story indeed, but it's not the fault of that GPS, although the driver's reliance on it clearly was a contributing factor in the events that lead up to the tragedy.

Years ago, if the same thing happened because a parent misread a map, nobody would have blamed the map publisher. Maybe some would have tried to blame Jeep for selling a pseudo offroad vehicle with marketing that makes users take unuusal risks because they think they own a tough go-anywhere machine. Only when they get stuck in that machine they'll realize that 4x4 doesn't mean locking differentials and tire pressure control system (nobody stops a driver from airing down tires manually to get more grip on loose soil, but that puts some blame on the driver again, while suing Chrsyler is so much more lucrative...)

Since Bob didn't mention it, I will:

VX-31 personnel out of China Lake assisted in this rescue.

Condolences to the boy's family.

Any map, whether it is on paper or electronic, is subject to the same limitation...the value of the input data. Garbage in, garbage out. I've found that the maps for my Garmin iQue 3600 know of unmaintained Forest Service roads, service roads in and around state parks that are gated and locked and roads on posted private land. Of course, the same could be said of a USGS 7.5-minute topop map on paper. It'll show gravel roads that are impassable by normal cars, jeep trails, etc. You have to know your tools and how to use them.

If you have a road-data GPS, do NOT use it if you have to get off-road. Even if you have a topo-data GPS, learn what its limitations are and live within them.

This situation was not the fault of the GPS. It could only work within the limits of its input data and the user must ultimately be responsible for knowing those limitations.

The first clue to the user's irresponsibility was continuing onto less-and-less-traveled roads (ultimately off-road) after having had a flat tire. First logical step would have been to backtrack along a known (already-traveled) path to get back to civilization.

This was a very avoidable tragedy. My sympathies to the family but ultimately the responsibility lies with the human, not the electronics.

A different problem with GPSrs didn't come into play this time, but bears repeating given the comments so far:

Never trust your life to anything that requires batteries.

Map and compass, and skill using them, will never fail. GPSrs often do.

In my opinion this death is due to a VERY common occurance which was GETTING STUCK in sand or mud. The GPS had nothing to do with it.
If the mother had been able to free her vehicle then there would have been no problems.
Sounds to me like this mother showed terrible judgment in driving into terrain that her car couldnt handle.
This story isnt about GPS at all, its about a thing Darwin talked about.
Sadly it wont stop a lawyer from suing and most likely winning.

Unfortunately, in this case the Darwin effect took out the wrong person. The son died because of the mothers mistakes.

-Rudy

Everything today is a lawsuit. This was not the fault of the maker of the GPS, it was the fault of the USER. It was a stupid action by the mom, why should the maker of the GPS be at blame? Why is it everything that goes wrong, mainly from operator error, these days a frigging "lawsuit"? Can't anyone accept reponsibility for their actions!

GB:

People can't even take responsibility for their own crap (PACK OUT YOUR WAGBAGS!). Why on EARTH would they be reponsible for their actions???

She obviously made some big mistakes, but I do feel bad for her. Can you imagine watching your kid die in the desert and not being able to do anything about it. Sad.