Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Anyone uses GPS for hiking?

I tried searching on "GPS" and "gps" and didn't have any luck...

I've been toying with the idea of getting a handheld GPS unit, as I'm warming up to the idea of doing more off trail/cross country hikes. My hiking buddy isn't too keen on going off trail, so I'll most likely be doing this type of hikes solo. I think having a GPS will bolster my confidence, and give my hubby peace of mind (as the SPOT currently does),

Anyone here uses one? Any pros and cons to a particular model? I'm looking for simplicity and accuracy. So far the Garmin GPS 60CSx and DeLorme Earthmate PN-40 seem to have everything (and more). But so expensive...

Any advice/info is much appreciated!

I use a GPS for cross-country hikes in Death Valley where there are only 2 maintained trails. It's also useful to have a GPS for trail hiking just for things like how far to the next junction. My unit is an ancient Garmin 12XL. No bells or whistles, only a black and white screen - just your position and waypoints, but what else do you really need? The 12XL isn't made anymore, but I wouldn't spend big bucks on exotic features unless you want an expensive toy. Go with something simple. I imagine that the board members will have plenty of recommendations. Read the manual. A GPS has a setting called a "datum" (a model of the shape of the Earth's surface). The GPS datum must match the map datum for accuracy. For example, the USGS 7.5 minute maps and Tom Harrison maps are based on the NAD27 datum. Other maps may use the WGS84 datum. All quality maps will say in the map legend which datum they use. A mismatch can cause errors of 100 meters or more. Also, get familar with the UTM system of co-ordinates. It is much easier to use than latitude and longitude. Good maps will have UTM co-ordinates marked along the edges. The GPS can be set to display these as well. Good luck!

I use a Garmin eTrex Legend HC. It is great.
My recommendations (opinions):
#1 - Get a Garmin. I have seen and used many other brands and nothing compares. You cannot tell by the specs and write up how a unit will actually perform. I have not used the DeLorme product that you mentioned.
#2 - Get mapping (and topo mapping specifically) if at all possible. I would spend extra for mapping before I would spend extra for a color screen.
#3 - I would save the weight, money and size and get an eTrex series model over a 60 series model. The new Dakota series is also small and light, but pricey.
#4 - If money is an issue, pass on the "sensors". The "S" in Garmin part numbers indicates that the product has pressure and electronic compass sensors. Nice, but certainly far from essential.
Hiking with a GPS is informational and entertaining.

My "field" GPS is likewise a rather ancient and venerable Garmin GPS II+. Monochrome, no maps, just bearing and distance (in "crows" not "hikers").

My comment about "crows" is that a simple GPS bearing and distance is straight-line (well, great circle if you want to be precise). What you do on the ground is measured in "hikers" or trail miles and includes switchbacks, avoiding trivial details like lakes, cliffs, etc.

However, for finding your way back to the trailhead (or your car) and for general knowledge of distance to waypoints like a campsite or summit, a simple GPS is fine. You can also record tracks and lay these down on topo maps through a variety of computer software. Very useful for documenting a route and sharing trails with friends. Other advantages of relatively simple units are much longer battery life and (maybe) lighter weight.

Whatever GPS you buy for field use, pay attention to battery life. In general, something that uses commercial batteries (AA, AAA, etc.) will be much better than something that uses internal rechargeable Li-ion or Li-poly batteries that have to be recharged. My Garmin iQue 3600 is a great car navigation tool but with less than an hour of battery life running the GPS without the wall or car charger, it's hopeless as a field unit.

Don't be too impressed with map-laden GPS units. You might get 100k topo resolution at best, not nearly good enough for route-finding in anything but the simplest terrain. The added memory consumes power as do the bigger displays needed to show more than a tiny segment of a map.

I have several friends who have various flavors of the Garmin eTrex units, which are pretty simple by today's standards.

I fear you'll have trouble finding something "simple" any more but let us know what you end up buying.

Finally, owning a GPS will NOT let you leave the map and compass at home. Maps and compasses work fine without batteries. If you depend on the GPS as your sole navigational aid and its batteries run out, you're lost...

My wife works for the DFG (actually the Multi Species Habitat and Conservation Plan for Riverside County) and uses a GPS every day. I asked her as she really likes using her GPS for everything, including some kind of treasure hunt (cache) as well as on the trail. She said she uses the Garmin Legend. She went on eBay and picked it up for $50.00 used. I guess they go for $119 new. She took her time on eBay, asked questions of the sellers, etc. She didn't just pick up one at that price, but a couple more for the kids.
P.S. Many of the used GPS on eBay are near new as the people who buy them really don't use them and sell them fairly quickly. Just do some homework and you can probably get something good at an inexpensive price.

I love my E-Trex Legend HcX; I got the bundle package from REI that included the map software. It is lightweight, has basic maps, good tracking of satelites. Probably the best for the money spent; and I have owned a few. I preload some waypoints in before I leave the house as the accuracy of the Garmin software is not as reliable as the Terrain Navigator(I love this program) or the Topo series(many use Topo - not as good as TN however much better than Garmin for map accuracy).

Just to reinforce what others have already said, I'd advocate getting a simple unit and learning how to use it in conjunction with your map and compass. I've found that the "goto" function on Garmin units works very well, so if you marked the location of your camp/car/other important location on your GPS it will definitely help you get back.

My first GPS was a Garmin eTrex Vista complete with map and all sorts of clever functions. I found the screen to be way too small to be functional for maps. When it the LCD died I replaced it with a much cheaper, simpler unit.

I'm probably old school in my thinking, but I much prefer to stay "found" rather than carry gear to help me recover from being lost. The GPS can be a useful tool to spot-check location and confirm that I really am where I think I am. Whenever I start to wonder if I am getting off track I stop and work it out until I am convinced I know where I am, and where I need to go. Backtracking to a known location has also served me well.

Thanks for all the input, guys! Definitely will look into the eTrax Legend now, Besides, lighter weight and longer battery life are always a plus in my book,

No, I won't leave my compass and map behind, they are always with me. Sometimes it is nice to know exactly where (and how high) we are at.

You reminded me of another GPS limitation. On units that use the GPS satellite data to estimate altitude (like my old GPS II+), the accuracy of altitudes is pretty poor. Mine often tells me I'm 50' to 100' up in the air above the point where I'm standing. (Assuming it's a spot for which I know the altitude pretty precisely, like a summit or pass)

If you think about how GPS works, this makes sense. Positions are computed off the timing differences among signals from several satellites. The best accuracy will be attained when you have two satellites 180 degrees apart along the line where you're trying to measure your position. Of course, for altitude, you'd want one straight overhead and the other one straight underfoot. Oops...there is the little detail of about 8,000 miles of rock and iron right under your feet, so about the best you'll get for altitude is one at the zenith (overhead) and one at the horizon, but that greatly limits the accuracy of altitude calculation.

Of course, if you're trying to figure out whether you're at 10,000' or 11,000', a 50' error isn't going to matter a lot, so the altitude readout can still be of some use, just not very good precision.

I use an old Magellan eXplorist 210 for my hiking GPS. It's mostly to record where we've been, not necessarily for route-finding. But it has been helpful to point in the general direction of the trail when we have ventured off track, so at least we can find the way back. Black-n-white screen, altimeter, track logs is all it does. Still has the main USA highways so it's possible to use for driving but more interesting to use my old road atlas.
As others have said, the more bells and whistles installed, the greater drain on battery. Mine takes 2 AA size. I get about 16-18 hours with Lithium, but only about half that with rechargables. I constantly have that internal environmental debate...

OK, a contrarian viewpoint: get a GPS if you want a nice toy but use a topo map and compass (and common sense) for finding your way around the wilderness. (If you were sailing solo around the world that would be another matter.)

My first experience with a GPS was on a simple cross country route. I had done it solo once before, with map and compass, and came out within 10 feet of my target point. This second time my hiking buddy had a GPS. He kept insisting, against the evidence of the map and my previous on-the-ground experience, that we head downhill. I told him that would put us in a very difficult place, perhaps ledged. When he wouldn't listen I did something I had never done before or since: I told him that if he went that way he was going on his own; I knew it was dumb and dangerous. He finally harrumphed and came with me and we came out within 10' of our target.

I would say that you shouldn't carry map and compass as back-up to the GPS. Rely on map and compass and consider the GPS a toy.

Burt, couldn't agree with you more. There is so much that can go wrong with electronics in the field. There is also nothing as satisfying as figuring out a course by eyeball/map/compass, and then walking it out, or figuring out a navigation puzzle using one's brain as primary instrument.

GPS is a wonderful backup technology. I use it all the time on my boats, and it adds a lot, and a margin of safety. But when the fog descends, I start plotting on a chart. The GPS backs me up.

By the way, an incredible read is "A world of my Own", by Robin Knox-Johnston, the first to make a solo, non-stop circumnavigation of the world, in 1968. He did not have GPS.

Like Alan, I own a Garmin iQue 3600. With it, I can download National Geographic Topo! maps with my route superimposed. With those maps, the unit acts as an electronic version of a USGS topo map, with the added advantages that it has a "You are Here" spot on it, it can calculate distances along your route, and it can provide an elevation profile of your route. It also has underlying elevation data for the entire map area, so you have a fairly accurate estimate of your elevation as well, or you can just read the elevation off the map.

The unit is actually a Palm PDA, so you can run all kinds of useful applications in addition to GPS mapping. I often download pictures from the internet into the unit of tricky parts of routes for reference while hiking. I also download route descriptions and maps.

I have run my unit for up to 8 hours continuously. Last summer I took it on a week long, mostly cross country backpack, and still had plenty of battery power left at the end. You can't run it continuously for that length, but it has more than adequate charge for spot checks.

I take paper maps as back up, and though I have never been forced to fall back on them, they are nice to have for a broad overview.

I have several GPSrs but only rarely take them hiking. I prefer to use a map and compass - it's easy once you learn to read topo maps like 3D models.

I did buy a Garmin Oregon 200 last year with my REI dividend (after their sale price and the dividend it cost me about six bucks), mostly so I can take it when I travel and have maps in case I decide to take a hike on an impulse. Garmin does now have 24k scale topos, about $100 for all the topos in California Oregon Washington and Nevada. I load them on an SD card.

Still, I prefer maps as you can't see much detailed country on a 2x3 inch screen.

And, never trust your life to anything that requires batteries.

I’ve done a lot of off trail hiking, solo, no itinerary left with anyone, and I have found that the GPS adds an extra level of safety as a map supplement. I carry a compass but rarely use it, as cross country routes in mountainous Southern Calif. is determined more by topography and direct sighting than bearing. I generally run my GPS full time, logging data, attached to the top of one of my poles whenever those are strapped to my backpack (body water blocks GPS signals). When travelling off trail, I will sometimes consult the bread crumb display (I don’t upload any maps to the unit), to check my progress or ensure that I am closing the loop or returning the same way that I went in.

Most outdoor GPS units have similar features. Here are a few Garmins that I have actually used in the backcountry:

60csx:
Probably the best selling one, and you would have to pry this one out of my hypothermic, hypoxic hands. As accurate as consumer grade gets, good battery life and good screen readability. Don’t take my word, just read all the Amazon reviews (all right, don’t read all of them, but read some, there is some interesting stuff like workarounds for uploading non-Garmin maps). Worth the $$$.

60cx:
The 60csx without the barometer, which dampens the somewhat wild fluctuations of GPS altitude. If you’re not finicky about constant altitude accuracy (which I happen to be as I download and analyze data post trip), this is otherwise as good as the 60csx.

76csx:
My first GPS was the pre-SIRFIII-chip 72. I like the rectangular form factor and bigger buttons. However, this unit is positioned for the marine market, and is optimized for longer battery life, at the expense of reception sensitivity. This is a good choice for those who spend their time in flat to rolling terrain, in addition to the water.

Etrex Vista HCx:
Compact size, great battery life and reception as good as the 60csx, which is surprising considering that it has the inferior patch antenna. But 2 significant flaws:
1. Bouts of multipath interference (this means that the position reported is significantly thrown off), on slopes as shallow as 45 degrees.
2. Screen is harder to read than the 60csx.

I have not used the following, but here are some observations of others and my thoughts:

Garmin Oregon, Colorado:
I don’t find compelling reasons to upgrade from the 60csx. The bigger screens are reported to be hard to read outdoors and battery life is diminished.

DeLorme PN-40:
I’d be interested in testing this one; I’m wondering how the accuracy and reception compare to the 60csx. Compact size, but battery life appears to be inferior to the Garmins. The unlimited map/aerial photo download options are enticing, but users have complained of slow download speeds.

Magellan Triton:
Early units had quality control problems. I suspect that Magellan has or should get it right – they also produce survey grade units.

I’m intrigued by the PDA option. I picked up a Trimble Juno – a unit supposedly built specifically for GPS/GIS data collection – at a good price, but I haven’t gotten around to setting up or testing the GPS functions yet.

As far as re-chargeable batteries, Amazon reviewers are once again your friends (hint: Sanyo, not the “bunny brand”).

I am loving this thread, especially the map & compass vs. GPS comparisons. I did alot of hiking and voyaging in the pre GPS era, finding Hawaii (Big Island) from the south, Barbados from the east, and Cozumel from the east back in the day.
Even though I think of myself as an ultra-light hiker, now that GPS is available I make it part of my Gear list. Even though I LOVE using my primary navigation tool; the topo map.
Here is how I use eTrex GPS:
1 - It is my watch and alarm clock
2 - I set my next destination as the "go to" waypoint and periodically check progress along the way.
3 - It validates where I think I am.
4 - It helps me out of sticky situations: In the summer of 2007 I was making my first Whitney climb via the Mountaineer's Route. For various reasons we gat a late start to our first destination of Upper Boy Scout Lake. Travel was slower than anticipated. We missunderstood the directions we had read. Bottom line, leaving Lower Boy Scout Lake we thought we were to up to the bush above a giant rock. There was the rock, there was the bush, there was a well worn use trail heading to the bush. Upon reaching the bush, the trail petered out. We studied the map. We looked up stream. Darkness was falling. We entered Upper Boy Scout Lake as a Way Point and began following the dotted line. Soon it was pitch dark. But we knew exactly where we needed to go and had a dotted line on the GPS to follow. Twice we came to impassable points and simply retreated and advance below the obstacle. We bushwacked confidently towards our objective. Eventually we came over a rise and saw the lights of a couple of camps.
Without the GPS we would have been fine. We just would have had to stop earlier and wait for morning. As it was we had a mini-epic, made it to our destination and were ready for our ascent in the morning.

I take a GPS hiking with me just because I like to take lots of notes and then look at Google Earth later. I stick to trails. I have used really large topo maps and a compass and compared them to the GPS and they both X marks the spot. I tend to not like GPS because I do keep running the batteries out and when they run out the waymarks aren't saved. I have to turn off the GPS (this one I have anyway) to have the waypoints written to the internal flash.

However I will say this, I do a lot of 4x4 in the middle of nowhere in Nevada and I don't have any recognition of landmarks out there, and in those cases a GPS has been invaluable. But the GPS stays off till I need it (to save batteries, among other things...perhaps I just like to get lost sometimes)...

Now, forget Long/Lat and learn UTM...it will take all of about 5 minutes.

With a grided map, you will be able to fix your position in less than 30 seconds.

I have a Magellan Meridian that's about 8 years old, still works fine.
I carry it pretty much everywhere; running, biking, MTB, hiking, 4x4, kayaking etc
Gives me great data on where I've been and how high how far etc
I can also upload tracks to it of trails and I can see how far to the next junction, waypooint etc.

I also carry maps where appropiate, the little screen isn't so good for navigating - but the arrow and distance to next point is pretty good.

I'd say get a Garmin; either a 60 series or a Vista or one of the newer pricier models.

They are another tool to use.

I would suggest a “mapping GPS” made by Garmin, such as the 60CSx or the Vista HCx. The 60CSx has a slightly bigger screen, more buttons so functions are a bit easier to find/use, but is heavier. While they use different chip sets, they are comparable in their ability to quickly lock on and retain satellite signals. Amazon’s price for the 60CSx is about $235, and the Vista HCx $210.

I used a Garmin Vista for many years, and upgraded to a 60CSx a couple of years ago, mainly for the color screen and the better reception. Its ability to retain a signal is excellent.

In addition to the GPS, you will also need Garmin’s Topo 2008 mapware – runs about $75. There’s better mapware out there, notably from National Geographic, but the Garmin software is the only one which can upload to your Garmin GPS and replace the stock basemaps. You can move information (tracks/routes/waypoints) between Topo 2008 and the various NG series (as well as other map software) but to move it to your GPS it must use the Garmin software.

Get a bigger memory chip as well – a 2GB microSD for about $10 is fine – will allow enough room to load in maps for most of the mountainous areas on both coasts.

I use AA NiMH rechargeable batteries (the 60CSx uses two) and I carry 4 spares (my camera also uses AA) and find they almost always last 8-10 hours. In cold weather I carry 4 lithium in addition to the NiMH as lithiums are not affected much by cold (below freezing). I’ve only needed the lithiums once for a period of about 3 hours, but was glad I had them.

I’ve found the GPS a terrific tool, and while I’m comfortable with a map and compass, the ease, accuracy and reliability of the GPS is something I trust. While I still carry a compass out of habit, I haven’t used it in years. If I was worried about a backup device, I’d carry a second GPS.

There are some devices we find indispensible – our LED headlamps (which require batteries), stoves, and water filters among others. The failure of any other these has the potential for making our life uncomfortable, or worse. Like many things, it is about risk management and one’s own comfort level.