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It was the wrong "Bob."

I am sorry, Bob R. I should have checked my sources before posting.

I was a firefighter / paramedic / rescue instructor. That said I have seen a lot, I never saw the pics and have no need to. But in my .... Filter.... I would say before makeing coments that a rescue pro did not take pictures a lay person did. I am sure no harm was meant but everyone wants to see, its human nature. I could be working a really messy call and people would try to peek. In this age of camaras everywhere its going to get worse untill people realize that there should be limits.

You may have noticed I have been quiet since Wade went missing, but I was following the posts hopeing that he was OK. If I was there I would have asked SAR if they could use my help, that might mean bringing lunches to people in a office some where. Not being up on the mountain freelanceing and maybe becoming part of the problem. People want to be connected we all do but when there is a emergency / rescue we all need to think like a pro if we are there. Stay out of the way and do what we are asked to do.

Lastly I would keep the camara in my pocket. To me its like takeing pictures at a car wreck or a fatal fire. Think like a pro would please. I have too many pictures in my mind, that nobody should see. Thanks

Richard is one rad dude.
To richards credit and defense.
1. there were no grusome photos displayed on this site.
2. he removed the photos when asked.
3. he apolagized to doug.
4. he is organizing a hike in memory of Wade.

as for the people who wanted the other photos e mailed to them. i would chalk this up as Human nature.

maybe it would be good if some people reserved their harsh judgements.

Last time i checked, i was living in America where they have freedom of the press.

OK, maybe some see this issue as conflict. But there is another angle that is more positive. This Board and Whitney, the mountain brings people from different places together. People of different opinions, different ages, different hiking abilities, different home locations; and the list goes on.

Whether we thought the pictures were a good idea, bad idea or we have no opinion, we can discuss it.

Maybe enough of this topic, but may the discourse continue.

Thanks for the warning bulldog34, but I'm already hooked...lol!

nom nom nom

And be advised - there's no cure. 'Cept maybe regular trips to the mountain.

I understand How one gets hooked on this mountain , My first Summit was 8/18/09 and I plan to do it aleast once a year that God has me on this earth . I understand how you all love this mountain , when I drove up to lone pine From Death Valley and saw her in all her Glory I was Amazed to say the least .

I did this hike on my own and I don't know what was more amazing Reaching the summit or meeting so many amazing people . I have watched this board before for all it's usefullness and after to be encouraged to do it again . I was so sad by wades passing and followed the post hourly , I would be honored to hike in his memory once a year . Thank you all Keep on keeping on !!!!

This reminded me a statement that "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." I am not sure that I agree with such justification of censorship.

At the same time I accept the right of Doug to moderate this forum as he wishes, the same way as I accept the right of Jimmy Wales to moderate Wikipedia according to his beliefs and values.

pics are just wrong , some people have some serious issues to deal with the loss of this man , the old would of could of should of comes to mind.
The guy was doing something he enjoyed, he is at peace.

Tiny, clearly you're not yourself a member of the Quality Writing Is Rare population. Perhaps you should take up dentistry in the UK on the side.

And, oh yeah - Amen, brother! Very well put.

Tiny,
Very well said!

Regarding coverage on this board: You may already know this now and may have missed the initial thread due to its title; but the story first appeared here the day after Wade came up missing under the title "Older Hiker". Doug Sr. reported that Richard and Mike had spoken with him on Sunday afternoon and that he was not down yet. He asked for anyone else who might have encountered him or had info to report the incident. After a few days the name of the thread was changed to "Wade Brunette". Eventually this thread got 135 posts and over 10,000 views.

I took my requisite 48 hours to mull this all over. OK, more like a week, but with the level of emotion being so heightened, I wanted to step back, chew on it, wander about a bit and run things through my mind. I read and re-read this thread, as well as others, to make sure I had not missed anything, and tried to incorporate everything. That’s a lot for this lil brain.

Tiny, thanks for your response. Out of all of them, yours made me think the hardest. (Could have been the spell-check…) Unfortunately, I can’t say I agree with you on all your points, though. Which is GOOD: that’s what these message boards are all about, and that is how Doug wants to board to be: conflicting opinions and debate over a multitude of topics related to mountaineering and Whitney.

OK, here goes…

1) As for the “more validated contributors”, I assume you mean those who are currently or historically have been directly involved in SAR. For those who have posted (BobR, robk, Dustrunner, AreteJoe, snaps10, to name a few), I would indeed consider their credentials to be that of experts on the duties and bureaucracy of how information is handled and distributed to the public. There is nothing wrong with having experts, as long as the opinion remains objective. I would agree that there was some breakdown in that objectivity, but again, due to the emotional nature of the subject, I am not surprised, and would consider the reaction to be, well, human. The ability to maintain objectivity, coupled with experience, is my own way of measuring how much that person’s words will mean in a given situation.

2) As for the “social clique”, that will indeed exist in forums where regular contributors form “relationships”. The content of banter between members will vary depending on the forum (see the PnP forums over on summitpost.org where basically it’s OK to tell one another to f-off with regularity). I know from my experiences here that ALL are welcome, noobs and vets alike, to share, ask questions, write up reports, and spew opinions until the cows come home.

3) I completely agree with you in regards to the dangers of the written word. But that actually is where I took the greatest offense in the last week. I like to keep my writing as free-form as possible, but of late I have had to weigh and measure every word and phrase while tiptoe-ing around. That’s why the stories and other posts, for me at least, have been so few and far between, a far cry from my “chatting” days. But with this particular situation, words HAD to be carefully put together (more on this in a minute).

4) MEAT OF THE MATTER: You complain about not having ENOUGH information regarding Wade. Ok. How about this: unless you have a direct stake in the SAR effort or are a direct member of his family, WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS? Why do you NEED to know this information RIGHT NOW? I agree that this was a tragedy, that the Board was a means to convey what little information was out there, from Mike, from Richard, from the other guys who took Wade’s photo. It mobilized sympathy from our family to theirs. We, as outsiders and civilians, could attempt to help in any way we could, because we are inherently good people who care deeply about all who set foot in our wilderness. When we see photographs of horrors around the world, we all feel a pang of guilt and helplessness; we want to reach out and help if we can. But there is a distance, a shield, a barrier, because we are not directly connected to these people and places. That wasn’t the case here: that gate was opened when Wade set foot on our trail. We all felt MORE helpless, and it was more difficult to trust that the authorities were doing all they could. I mean, SURELY, if Moose and Richard and Mike and Tom and Doug could be in the area, then SURELY they could help and FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION AND BRING IT BACK TO US. Well, Tiny, that’s not our job. There is a method to the madness, and that includes waiting for SAR to complete their efforts, write their reports, and then publish the results. My job was to stay out of the way. I offered my legs and back to haul supplies if they needed, but I can with a clear conscience say it was ONLY to haul gear. Not to talk to the SAR, not to listen in, not to glean more information. (And here’s another one of those wording tricks: I’m sure someone will think I am saying others had other agendas. FAR FROM IT: I am only distinguishing my own intentions, and I cannot speak for anyone else at all). It sucks, but them thar’s the breaks. The ONLY reason people would need to see pics RIGHT NOW would be to feed their own thoughts and clearing their own minds that, indeed, they had done all they could to help. Sure, we might learn something to apply to our own trips in the future. But why do you need that information now (unless you are indeed headed up that direction this coming week). Waiting for the official reports to surface is appropriate. By offering photos of the operation, it initiated a feeding frenzy WHILE THE FAMILY OF THE VICTIM MAY HAVE STILL BEEN IN THE VICINITY AND READING THE BOARD. You don’t find it a little awkward that one minute we are expressing grief and the next we are frantically putting our names on the list? Regardless of what the pictures showed, we did such an amazing job of showing support and empathy to the family, only to have that evaporate as many of the same people begged for access.

5) As for offensive content, I would challenge that to say that debatable topics are what come up here most often. Doug has attempted to keep personal attacks at a minimum, and I know he draws a very strict line at posts regarding SAR and other recovery efforts. This wasn’t a topic about toilets along the trail, or filtering water, or permits. This was a person. It doesn’t matter what I think about the situation with the pictures: we have instead to think about what the family is going through and have respect for their space and their willingness to give out information (on their own blog, btw).

As for more, I might need a bottle of scotch and a warm campfire to spur debate.

-L

Bob,
it seems to be heating up some. Does it feel any warmer to you?

I may have a bottle or two of scotch. got a firepit in the backyard if God isn't kind to us. we can hold a SoCal Scotch out
C'mon down sweetie - mi casa, su casa~

[quote=MooseTracks

MEAT OF THE MATTER: You complain about not having ENOUGH information regarding Wade. Ok. How about this: unless you have a direct stake in the SAR effort or are a direct member of his family, WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS? Why do you NEED to know this information RIGHT NOW?
-L
[/quote]

Because people are (1) humans with an inborn curious streak, and (2) conditioned by the media to expect instant details on any story of interest.

I could submit countless examples, but why? Go open your morning paper. Turn on the news. Google phrases like "death", "tragedy", "accident" and note the hits. It doesn't mean people are morbid, ghoulish or voyeuristic, though certainly some are. It just means that people consider immediate information a basic expectation of the age we live in. It isn't good or bad - it just is. You might as well condemn the weather for all the good it'll do.

What occurred with Wade was a counterpoint to this expectation, especially among a smallish, close-knit group like the WPSMB. Information was minimal and slow in being released, even after his body was recovered. An information vacuum existed, well after the point that people are conditioned to expect details. It's no surprise that some (many) went to work to fill that vacuum.

As to the correctness or not of posting opinions, ideas, suggestions, etc on this board, or any public media while his family was watching, that's too fine a line for me to draw. Persuasive arguments could be made both ways. I do know however, from way too much personal experience, that in hospital ICU/CCU units and funeral parlors, the family spends a great deal of time explaining and discussing "what happened".

Hear hear Laura. I will now bow out before I say something that I shouldn't say, since anything I would say at this point would not be constructive....

Laura,
I'll buy you a Scotch any day. As a matter of fact, my dad told me my ancestry is Scotch :-)

Now, Tiny......interesting nickname. Could it be Freudian? I must admit, I was going for your line of crap until you started getting personal. Not sure why people write what they think other people want to hear, while at the same time drooling to write something negative and attack. My negativity stops now. Maybe we will all get a chance in the future to share a bit of the brew.

I believe the beauty of this site comes from the individuals who feel they can use the word "OUR" in respect to the mountain they love. After my mom died many years ago, many of my friends came up to me afterword and comforted me, referring to the woman who had just passed away as "my mom". It was obvious to me that my biological mother wasn't their mom, but that's how my friends felt about her. I appreciated that they felt comfortable and caring enough to call her "my mom". My example being set.... The term "OUR", when referring to Mt Whitney, represents a collective viewpoint of the individuals who post on this site. It in no means used as a "possessive". It is a loving and caring term by individuals who give of their own time to help promote and protect Mt Whitney. I'm one of the "noobs" Laura refers to, and Mt Whitney is not more exclusively hers, than it is mine. BUT, I will defer to her, not only because of her knowledge of the Sierra's and Mt Whitney, but because of her time on the mountains, her expertise, her obvious caring of the individuals on the mountain, as well as everything she does to make Mt Whitney a better and more fun place to hike.

Crap, it's too early to drink............... Dammit Laura, see what you got me doin!!!!!! Maybe next season, I'll share a Scotch with you after my buddies and I hike "our mountain".

Joe, it's 12:01 on the East Coast. Go for it.