Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board lightweight 4-season tent?

Since GigaMike pointed me to the Black Diamond Firstlight, I've been reading some reviews about it online. I think it would be a perfect tent for me for snowcamping in the Sierras. I love its light weight, but seems like condensation could be an issue. I guess it's the nature of single-walled tents... Is it something I should worry about with my down bag getting wet? I imagine if I go solo, the 2-person Firstlight provides ample space so I won't be up against the sides... I also read that the internal poles are more conducive to dripping (from condensation)? Anybody has any experience with it? Any favorite 4-season tents that's still light weight? Thanks!!!

Hi Kristine,
+1 for the Firstlight. I've only had mine for a few months, but I've used it both at the beach and in temps down to 10F on San Jacinto. Last weekend Norma & I used it on the LeConte climb with the optional vestibule. We were melting snow in it for an hour or so everyday with everything zipped up, and had no condensation issues. It's super light, sets up in seconds and the "I" tent configuration provides lots of headroom to sit up. No complaints thus far!

The BD Firstlight is now green. It used to be classified as a 3 season tent (I considered it a 3+) but the specs for the new version say it's a 4 season. Depending on what you plan to use this tent for, I wouldn't classify it has a true 4 season. It is a great tent (I had the BD Lighthouse which is almost the same tent just slightly larger in overall dimensions). One of the poles broke in high winds and when I went to REI to purchase a new pole, they wanted to replace the tent! So I just upgraded to a Mountain Hardwear EV 2. Love REI!

Edit: Noticed the weight is slightly more with the new version of the Firstlight - APW (average packed weight): 3 lb 5 oz. APW used to be under 3 lbs. I'm guessing something was changed structurally (like stronger fabric) to put it into the 4 season category. Just an educated guess.

Edited again: Just found this link on the previous version of the Firstlight. Shows weight at 2 lb 11 oz and classified as a 3 season. Scroll down and read review from Don Bowie (Sierra, Cascade, Himalayan... alpine climber). Good review. I'd be interested to see how the new Firstlight stacks up...

"4-season" can mean a lot of different things. I have a 2-season tent that's really only good Fall and Winter. Way too little ventilation for warm weather.

Single wall tents are tricky- especially if they're meant to be breathable. Mid-winter you never have to worry about dew dripping down, rather frost snowing down. Breathable fabrics require a temperature gradient to push moisture through. My pathetic tiny bivy tent (seen last weekend) is old and made of first-gen Gore-Tex. I've never had condensation on the Gore-Tex in winter. I believe that's largely because it has so little volume that the inside temperature is always higher than outside and it pushes the vapor through. A friend had a two-person tent by the same maker, of the same fabric and it did have condensation issues. I think that was because of the much greater area and volume and it didn't have such a strong temperature gradient.

One of the guys last weekend had a tiny bivy tent made of eVent, which is supposed to be more breathable than Gore-Tex (though maybe not better than my first-gen version). He had some condensation while I had none. Maybe that was partly because he was warm while I was freezing!

So a great big tent with just one person might have more condensation issues than the same tent with two people.

I guess my point is that "your mileage may vary" (YMMV). But at least it would be nice to be able to sit up in a storm.

I'm a huge fan of the BD Firstlight.

I have used it exclusively this past year or so dirt-bagging and climbing everywhere. It is the perfect tent for the Sierra year round, imo. I have not had too much problems with condensation. I've used this tent up as high as 17k' in the Peruvian Andes, and a two week trip on the John Muir Trail. It is my go to tent for the Sierra winter. I've used it mostly as a solo tent but also have used it for two. It is designed for people 6' and under.

It is very easy to set up. I can do it in less than 1 minute. I would not use it in full conditions which include heavy snowfall/high winds/heavy rain. I have been in all three situations. The tent will take a beating but you and the tent will survive. These situations call for the beefier BD I-Tent. These two are the exact same construction, just different fabric with a weight difference of 2lbs.

1,000 Island Lake


10k' Tuttle Creek, Mt. Langley


17k' saddle on Ranrapalca, Peruvian Andes


15k' Elbrus, Russia


somewhere in Baja, CA

I like this tent and will probably add it to my collection of too many tents when I find it on sale somewhere.

Kevin... great pix of your BD Firstlight! I may just have to pick up the new Firstlight now that I have the MH EV 2 for serious winter mountaineering (like up here in the Cascades). Jury still out on the new 'green' though (liked the yellow)....


BD Lighthouse at TC on Mt. Whitney - June 10, 2007


BD Lighthouse on Mt. Hood - February 8,2009

Richard, if you find it on sale, let me know. I'll do the same.

If the 4-Season"ness" of the Firstlight is a concern, 2lbs more (ToddTex fabric instead of NanoShield) gets you the BD I-Tent or Eldorado... (Well, 2lbs and a couple hundred $$$!) Still lighter than the MH EV 2. EV 2 Direct would "directly" compare with the I-Tent & Eldorado as well (same general retail price & weight).

-Brandon

I have the 2010 BD Firstlight and love it! Package weight is listed at 3Lb 5oz, min weight is 2Lb 13oz. I weighed my tent in the stuff sack with poles and stakes and tie down cord (carry weight) and it was 2lb 15oz. The old fabric (yellow) was not available in California due to it was not fire treated (even though you could get them mail order!) The new NanoShield material (green)is said to have the highest water column rating of any Single wall/Single layer fabric, remember most breathable materials are multi-layer and not included in this study. I have had frost accumulate on the front flap where I breathed on it all night (I'm 5'10 and fit the tent pretty good, if you're tall it could be an issue).
Anyway it was $299 at Basegear and they gave me 20% off to sign up for the on-line news letter, sorry for being so verbose!

BD switched fabrics for their ultralight single wall tents from Epic to NanoShield. An improvement in waterproofness but at a the cost of increased weight.

I have the larger version (the Lighthouse) which BD no longer makes. I love it for three season use or for when the weather is good in the winter. Note that in all the pictures in this thread of the Firstlight the weather is perfect. In California in the Sierra you can often go and be assured the conditions will be good enough that you don't really need a tent at all. In those cases a Firstlight is a great choice. It's not any heavier than two bivy sacks and a whole lot nicer to share.

But if it's going to be really nasty I wouldn't choose a Firstlight. Check out Hilleberg for a lighter, true four season tent. There are others. If you must have a single wall tent sans vestibule, at least get one with a fabric that is less likely to tear. The Lighthouse that I have is very easy to put a hole in. Just get a little sloppy with the pole insertion and you have a small hole. Not what you want if the weather is bearing down on you. Perhaps the new NanoShield fabric is better in this regard?

Pretty great deals on MH and Bibler (Eldorado and I-tent) at OMC. Check it...

http://www.e-omc.com/catalog/categories/312_311/4Season-Tents.html

I'm a big fan of the MH Trango 2 personally, its definitely heavier than the tents you were mentioning, but absolutely bombproof.

I purchased my I-tent from e-omc earlier in the year and have used it on 2 trips so far. Weight has not been an issue and that’s considering I carry all my gear and my partners their own. Actually I haven't had any issues although on my most recent trip, last weekend, I did experience a little condensation only around the area close to my head. That might be poor ventilation on my part, I'm not sure. I also purchased the vestibule but haven’t used it.

I would recommend the I-tent but like others have said it’s heavier and more expensive than the alternatives.

On the west side right below the slabs leading up to Mt. Silliman.

There's a tent for every situation. There's also the user's skills involved. Picking a protected site, digging in and building walls are obviously critical, too. Different peaks demand different tents.

These single wall tents are light but keep in mind that there's no vestibule. The vestibule is important to store your pack, boots and such. It also blocks wind and spindrift from blowing into your tent while you get in and out. It also allows you to cook and stay inside during a storm.

The MH Trango II is burly tent intended for expedition use. It is something you want when it snowed 3 feet the night before with sustained wind of 50mph+ and you are expecting to sit in your tent for about a week. You can see it mostly at base camps on higher peaks. I have enjoyed that tent for many years on longer trips.

More pictures! I should get these companies to pay me for advertising their tents.

The MH Trango and BD Fitzoy in action in Alaska.



MH Trango and Marmot Alpinist in action on Mt. Rainier.

the next day with a bit of snow...


on Boundary with the infamous Bob Burd.


Shasta north side.

More amazing photos, Kevin! You have dug out many a tent site in the snow... You can be my 'digger' any day.

Based on this discussion, I just found a BD Lighthouse for $322 delivered from campsaver.com. Seemed like a good tent and a pretty good deal.

Thanks MC. I dig to stay warm.

Oh no! that's not a good deal. this is better. $254.97 shipped.
http://gearx.com/black-diamond-lighthouse-2-person-tent.html?feed=5GoogleBase

Great deal, Kevin! I would love to have that tent again in addition to my MH EV2. I'm interested in the new fabric, NanoShield, that BD is now using on the superlights. Wonder how much more waterproof it is than the Epic fabric. But really like the price of last years Lighthouse on gearx...

Thanks--I was able to cancel--you just saved me $70!

Wow, you guys (and gal, ) are AWESOME!!! Thank you!!

Congratulatoins on Le Conte, Dave! Love the photos and captions by Norma!
Wow, those are awesome photos (and beautiful places), Kevin! I'm so jealous...

Hmm, now I have more thinking/researching to do. Norman (hubby) wants a heavier duty tent... I'm thinking that at my current skill level, I'm looking at doing snow camping in "mild" conditions, if I'm doing solo. Since I don't currently have a 2-person tent (use the BA Flycreek UL1 in the summer), then maybe something light like a Firstlight or HiLight (did this replace the Light House you all mentioned?) would suffice as a summer 2-person tent (trying to get Norman to backpack Whitney with me this summer, ). Then upgrade to a MH EV2 or Marmot Alpinist 2P later? Or should I make the plunge now? Once I add the vestibule to the Firstlight or HiLight the weight difference with the EV2 or Alpinist 2 is around a pound, I think.

MC: I couldn't tell from the photos online. Does the EV2 have an integrated vestibule?

Kevin: does the Alpinist have an integrated vestibule?

Thanks again!!!

I just ordered my BD Firstlight. It is in the mail. I cant wait to try it.

I got mine the same place that StorminNorm did.
Basegear.com I paid $240 out the door. No shipping cost.

It better be good for Stasta. I'm thinking that I should of gotten the vestibule to go with it. Do these get used a lot?