Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board The Walk, an open debate

Hi How it starts , I think back to the very basic "W's",why, who, what, where,and when. Then start working on the how .

The how list draws from past experience. If I see reports of past conditions and see that the weather long term is active then extra care needs to focus on the gear needed, but never go with less than a basic pack , overnight or day trip, winter 0 degree bag, stove, layers to keep you safe in high winds and below 0 temps, food for at least 6000 calories a day, and how to get or make water . Boots that will allow you to cover the distance and conditions but not slow you down . Ask why at this point do I need to go?

Read the past storms, how old is the snow? How thick will the ice be at streams/ ponds/ lakes? Snow bridges and rock/tree wells. The depth of cover will tell me if I do break through could I break/twist a lower body part, jam up between rocks, and will I be able to use the cold to my advantage?


Travel on the surface or be forced to use snow shoes and post hole? How fast will I be able to travel over the area , How steep are the slopes and can I see tracks on the surface from past rock fall or wet slides or avalanches, what does the toe of the slope look like and the top? Can I see a cornice? Read the surface as you travel, what it did in the past will happen again.

Limit your exposure , an old climbing rule was 3 point contact at any one time and if a fall could be avoided by taking another move take that move, this limited the chance for accidents using this logic, you tend to travel with a level of security , never step ahead unless you test, load, then move, every step. This takes pratice but once you get it down you will move at a normal pace, this method works winter or summer . Ever notice someone walking up a slope knocking rocks loose and down on you? They are not testing and loading. The master of this walk was John Fisher a long time Eastern Sierra Guide.

Watch the sky. are the clouds moving and how fast? Color of the clouds and are they building or sheared ? What are the birds doing and can you see any small animals moving around? What tracks are on the surface.

Where you plan to go and how will I get out if things turn beyond my comfort level?This is the most missed part of most plans but needs to be at the very core of the trip. This can not be an after thought.When things turn and it is dark and colder and miles from an exit home. A failure at this point tests all your past experience and strength. The outcome is now in your control. Plan that this never happens period!

Put all the gear into a sack and weigh it? How long can you carry this and how fast can you travel with the load , Calculate the distance/time and a margin of error to see if you can go from point A-B .


Maps, basic skills needed to travel cross country, locating major way points as you travel, maintain a course by reading the ground and using a far objects to maintain direction, on a ridge pick a point many miles off and use it to hold your course when you drop in a valley and join a ridge again do a check by back sighting your course and you foresight ,this will keep you on a course .

Who , fact is if you rely on others in a extreme condition you may be short on taking care of yourself. I would never rely on others to have what I need or expect them to have it. In the real world what they need, they may not have, not a very nice picture but most times the fact.

The other things that may be of help should be considered as luxury items, GPS, PLB'S, Cellphones if they work and will help you in need great , Thinking they will may be a mistake.
A slip or fall may break them, the cold may drain the battery or the walls of a mountain may block signal coverage.

We just finished a tour of California , drove through the storm last Friday. Lone Pine had some wind and snow but Mammoth north had a good dump and very cold , I heard a radio report S&R was looking for someone around the Tahoe area, I pray they found them.

The headworks plan. so say you are experienced and have many trips down the path what are your major concerns . EGO ,Luck and it will never happen to ME ? These are harder to plan for than the basics , how many times have we heard 'they had years of experience" it shouldn't of happened! Accidents may be unplanned acts? Not the number of times luck or chance worked and you made it out.


These are some very hard topics but if we can open the dialouge we may be able to share some of the basic knowledge we have learned by trial and error so others may have a better starting point to travel from . I think a country quote went something like if you know better you do better. Thanks Doug

Doug, did you just fall into a crevasse...?

Excellent post, Mr. Thompson.

I think he must have just watched a re-run of Touching the Void

The post stopped mid-sentence before Doug edited (finished) it, hence the "crevasse" comment.

Good stuff.

Are some people blessed with a Sixth Sense? Or does it come from years of experience?

One of my most important Lessons Learned (from you (besides all of the philosophy)) was watching you climb a scree slope. Picking up that technique allows for faster and safer travel not only on sand, but boulder fields, moraines, snowfields (and on and on)...

We want another book from you Doug...

Great stuff, Doug! I believe in "the stupid stuff is what's going to kill you". So I try not to do stupid stuff...it's so easy to get distracted...take your eye off the trail for one moment while your feet are still moving and...it could get ugly.

Anyhow, I hope everyone has a safe winter hiking season.

Great post Doug and ditto that Richard about another book. And ditto what Tracie said about a safe hiking season.

I would add:

Turn around once an a while and see how (different) it will all look on the way back.....

Doug,

You brought up things that I had never thought of before like looking at the surface for tracks of past rock slides or avalances and to look for cornices. I've never thought about those things before. Nor have I ever wondered how old the snow is. I really enjoyed reading what you wrote. I totally agree about not relying on others to have what you need. I have a friend who hikes often with the Sierra Club. She hates to carry a lot in her pack so she doesn't take everything she needs because she says that Sierra Club hikers are always over-prepared, she says they carry extra of everything so she just borrows from them on hikes. Well, I'm an over-preparer too and she knows it so she always figures I'll have what she didn't bring and her plan worked for a while. But not anymore, I stopped bringing extra items and if I do have extra, I don't always tell her I do. Now when she asks I tell her, no, I don't have extra for her and I tell her she needs to be responsible for herself.

I won't debate your post, I think you're "right-on!".

Thanks.

Could you elaborate Richard (or Doug)? Many thanks.

Great post Doug, thanks for that!

These are helpful reminders. It is important for us to hear this from a very experienced mountaineer such as yourself. We should take the time and care needed to experience and enjoy the mountains.

Machiavelli wrote that half our life is controlled by 'fortuna' and we have no control over it. However, he also pointed out that we have 100 percent control of the other half. You are reminding us of our responsibility to ourselves and others whenever we venture forth.

Thanks.

1st time up the trail? (June '78) we were already in snow, in that dense tree area by Lone Pine Lk and met 2 guys and a girl coming down wearing tennis shoes and jeans about 10am. They were soaked up to the knees, coated in slush and did not respond to our queries of how's it going/ did you make it. We were invisible to them as
they slogged past. I remember it because we had gaitors and full grain
leather mountain boots and could only wonder how miserable these
stout souls were.

Great point Bee. People may not think to look back every once in a while. Some Poeple may think "why should I Look back when I'm on a trail"?

Simple example of this: while at a friends house yesterday, his 1yr son decided to climb the stairs. Got to the top then few minutes later started crying. Why? He didn't know how to get back down.

Moral of the story. Sometimes climbing UP is alot easier than climbing DOWN, even if there is a clear path that you can follow.

Hi The test, load, move can be used on flat sidewalks to high level climbing , say you live in Denver, it snows at night and melts during the day and early afternoon the sidewalks will be sheet ice , summer time walking along the road you step on a small rock it moves and you twist you ankle , on a slight slope you step on a large rock and find it moving as you move , on a steep short slope the entire slope moves , you are starting a class 5 climb and not sure at what degree of slope your shoes will maintain friction.

Since many accidents are based on slips and falls ,the art of focusing on every step is serious . The "test" is place the leading foot at the angle that gives you the most contact on the surface going up and start to put pressure on the surface. If it is solid place more pressure and load the force that you need to move , if at any part of the move you feel movement on the placement STOP and re test at a different location , during the movement phase the entire mind/ body is focused on the move , breathing, feeling and watching . The slope above you may start to move the slope below may move, the point of contact may move. Your reaction needs to stop the conditions caused by your move not make them worse. I call this the swiming slope dance I am sure you know what it looks like, Not only are you not going anywhere you are using energy and may cause rocks to travel downslope and hit others . Body position is critical, you can test this on a friction climb let your body be in the same angle as the slope and try to move up , most likely you will slide down, increase your upper body distance from the slope and you will maintain contact this is a trick used by climbers on many 3/4 class climbes again test load move.

Now many slips/ falls happen on the way down , not only are the same conditions required to step down but add the body mass and the slope angle into the equation and the surface you are testing may have a different support ratio due in part of the downward force .

Next you need to look well ahead so you never walk into unstable travel , and have an exit point if things look like they may lead to a blocked path , Travel out of the fall line if on a slope and understand if you are on a scree slope the entire area is a fall line. The speed you travel and your focus on the movement must be locked together , you can walk, talk and chew gum but make sure you understand at what cost.

I watched a person slip three times walking down one day , I did not understand why they were falling then I notice the head position never moved so any thing in the trail would cause a slip/fall because they were not looking down. I saw a post of a fall several years ago the first picture told the story if they go any higher they will fall , they went higher.....


Surface feed back, once you travel over a surface the conditions are established and you can adjust your speed for the conditions. This is another cause of slips/falls the condtions changed but the travel wasn't adjusted to match the change of conditions . The snow was soft on the way up but on the way down it had turned to ice . The slope was loose wet gravel in the morning as the sun hit the slope but after cloud cover and a freeze overnight the slope was solid rock.A large meadow was covered with snow, after looking at the map the meadow is a lake.


Sorry to ramble on but walking is such a simple event we sometimes forget we may be walking into a trap by not focusing on the act. Thanks Doug


Footware and the rubber used in the soles.The change in traction as the temperature changes are often not thought of.
Balance and recovery should be practiced like a dance, walking should be fluid and if out of balance one should recover with ease , many times you can fall and control a fall with recovery very quickly after pratice.

Much good advice. The best advice given me years ago was about climbing large scree and talus slopes. Never step on anything lying on the surface, look for stuff wedged into other talus.

Hey Doug..Today I did the main bowl at Baldy,practiceing on the scree, doing the "test" load, what I would like to do next summer is Lone Pine Peak and Russel..Shin taught me how to go up the main bowl by firmly placeing your foot at each step(thanks Shin)..

I enjoyed your write up and took the words with me in my head up there and it worked!

Now coming down I had fun running,walking,sliding viet cong style. Well I was close to the skihut trail walking along daydreaming placed my right foot on a boulder and it took off I did a 180 spread eagle sled 2 feet down and stood back up..
like you said "we sometimes forget we may be walking into a trap by not focusing on the act"...Thanks Doug

BTW..Whitney was looking good today from the summit

Baldy Today

Hi Doug Sr.,
All your points are very valid and so important to improve hiking skills and reduce the risk of potential life threatening injury. I personally experienced all your points when Richard P. took me two cross-county "Death march" hikes this summer around Mt. Whitney area. His hiking style is very fluid and effort-less and his body is always in balance at any terrain including climbing down to Tulainyo lake or Sakai-col or Green pass.

A hiker like me who get used to hike on "paved" trail is very important to study your points and intentionally try them out on every hike so I can really appreciate the value of your points.
I learned that it is very important to compare the book knowledge against the real situations same way to compare the map against the real mountains.

The cross-country hike is the best way to improve our hiking skills. It is nice to have a friend like Richard P. who is willing to share the knowledge with others.
I believe a lot of Richard's knowledge and wisdom came from you. and Bob R. and many other "Senior" hikers and climbers in the community.

I agree with others that you must come up a book "Advanced Hiking skills for Dumbmies".

Shin

Mr Shin it is an honor to know such a fine person. I watched you on the Baldy hike last year and could see your concern for others and had very sound advice as people moved up and down the mountain, and again this year when you walked with Eagle and was in the position to help if something went wrong, not saying anything but watching for the first hint of trouble.

I had dinner last night with a very important person in Earlene's and my life. The topic, was injuries and the risk of a fatal fall on very easy ground , take care of your body and mind and many years of travel are ahead.

The reward for us is watching the growth of a great group of people, talking with some on the first hike and seeing now what they can do, becoming leaders of the next generation.

Yesterday when Jim F said it was 2002 I thought WOW that went fast and the same time the sadness returned.


Thank You Mr Shin , Earlene and I hold you in our hearts.