Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Diamox

yes, having strong breathing muscles and being used to using them at higher ventilation rates is important and comes in very handy at high levels of exertion, or very thin air like the Himalayas or Andes ...but..

but the main problem at altitude for everyone (no matter what activity level) is not conditioning alone , but poor sensing of the need to ventilate at the higher rate appropriate for that altitude. Just think, at say the top of Orizaba, or Everest Base Camp, both 17,000 +, the air pressure is 50% of normal. Lots more ventilation is needed. You would think the body would adapt quickly, but it does not.

Our O2 and CO2 sensors (receptors) have three problems at least; (1) they are slow to respond, for example, ever wonder why it takes until the 3rd or 4th flight of steps before your body starts to say 'breath harder?" (2) it takes time - days if not weeks - to fully reset those receptors to the new altitude, and (3) the big problem at altitude is often is at night when you are asleep and all breathing is on automatic pilot when you tend to be a little low on O2 levels anyway when breathing and pulse and everything else has already normally slowed down.

Night is when the breathing disorder periodic breathing/Cheyne Stokes shows up, and is partially improved by Diamox. The hypoxic abnormal periodic breathing while you are asleep at sea level is called sleep apnea. There are some similarities to the abnormal "doubly-hypoxic" breathing while you are asleep at high altitude, and along with hypoxia-induced pulmonary hypertension it may lead from simple AMS to HAPE and HACE.

I'm with you, Quillansculpture, on trying to reduce the dose as much as possible. I am now experimenting with just taking 62.5 mg once a day, just before sleeping (I get Cheyne-Stokes breathing at altitude). Tried this on a recent trip up Mt. Shasta, and it was sufficient for me (realizing that we are all individuals).

This made me smile. Lawyers occasionally get grumpy as well about being asked for free advice. A group of attorneys who aren't bad singers put together this redux of a Cindy Lauper song and turned it into "I'm Billing Time." It takes about 35 seconds for the song to get good. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TkuZ5oI9uY

Yea, when I got my Attorney in Hawaii to get custody of my kids, one of the first things he told me was for every 12 minutes, you get charged 20. He was good though and I brought my kids back to California......of course it took appx $100,000.00. He also told me he wouldn't go to court if he didn't think he would win.....and, I love this one: "you need to decide how much your ego is worth fighting for". Pretty much meaning.....is it worth a whole lot of money to prove you're right, especially when it takes away from the whole purpose. He was right. I remember asking him to send me transcripts of one day in court. I just thought it would be funny to read my ex and her witnesses looking stupid. Well, those transcripts cost me $1400.00, so I probably should have just lived with my "memories".

Hi Evereyone - Long time no post! Been crazy busy!

Anyway, about Diamox:

From Dr. Peter Hackett's lips to my ears (figuratively speaking):
For preventive use - 62.5 mg twice a day (in the morning and just before going to sleep).

Although very rarely, I have used Diamox at this dosage and it has been effective and without any side-effects.

Dr. Hacket's advice to me was a bit different, but probably just because of my size. I am 6'2 and weigh 173 lbs. His advice to me was 125 mg twice a day in the morning and just before going to sleep. I have used that dosage before and still started vomitting and seeing double vision at 12K after going from sea level to 12K in about 10 hours. Besides more acclimatization time (which I will do before my next Whitney trip), he also recomended 4 milligrams of Dexamathazone every 6 hours to reduce swelling and Zofran to deal with the nausea as the need arrives.

Brent

Brent,
I think your right. I'm a bit smaller

And the rest sounds familiar too. I had the pleasure of hanging out and having several conversations with Dr. Hackett at base camp. He's an amazing man!

I am lucky that I acclimatize well.

i'm actually taking this right now, first time. i'm going to mexico to climb the volcanoes in november and wanted to try it in a more controlled condition here in the states. i started yesterday morning with 1/2 125mg tablets twice a day - so 62.5mg twice a day. after three doses i definitely feel drugged, am having some slight lower back soreness, a little drowsy, and am peeing like crazy, but that may be because i'm over compensating by drinking a ton of water so i don't dehydrate. no tingling, blurred vision or dizziness. i feel physically strong and don't feel like it will slow me down at all. any opinions? side effects sound on par?

i'm headed up to attempt mountaineers route this sunday, and may throw in a lone pine peak saturday if the weather is not too bad - doesn't look promising right now though. i'll see how i feel on this stuff at altitude, but i don't usually have problems with ams anyways, so i'm guessing i will be fine.

if your bored saturday/sunday my spot link is on my website!

john

I tried Diamox for the first time over Labor Day weekend on Whitney and I had a pretty negative reaction. I tried 125mg 2x a day for the day before, then a pill the morning we began our hike up. I nearly called it quits before Outpost camp. I was completely wiped out (felt like i had already climbed whitney!!), a little dizzy, nauseated (very slightly), and really really really hot (eventhough the weather/temp was AWESOME for hiking). After a nice nap and some food at Outpost (making it ~8-10 hrs after the last dose) I felt much better - no dizziness and not so damn hot. We made it to trail camp - and by then I felt myself again and made the summit the next morning.

sounds just like AMS.

How do you know it was not AMS that happened despite Diamox (rather than blaming it on the Diamox?)

If you had not done altitude exposure before arriving at Whitney Portal, then AMS is even more likely (despite Diamox).

Diamox does not fix everything anyway.

I considered the same thing - that it was AMS - but I'd been at altitude very recently ( a few times, not just once), and we spent the night at the portal the night before hiking. I have no real history of AMS (besides a very minor headache occasionally - which I didn't have in this case randomly). Though, I realize AMS can strike with no previous history of it at altitude.

The symptoms kicked in (overheated first - then extreme lethargy and the rest followed) within about a mile of the trail head, so before we gained any 'real' altitude. Then, I went from ready to quit to relatively normal in about 2.5-3 hours at Outpost Camp which would seem a bit quick for true acclimatization if it were AMS. Also - I had no additional symptoms as I went higher to Trail camp or the Summit the next morning. I actually felt better and better as we went higher/as time passed.

I think it was just a negative reaction to the Diamox in my specific case. All of my symptoms seemed to line up with potential though not exceedingly common side effects based on what I found in multiple sources online. I had the funky taste thing, as well as tingling in my hands/feet (which increased with exertion). I can't recall now if I took 62.5 or 125mg the morning before we began hiking, but I know I took 125 the am and pm the day before we began hiking - and was quite tired/sleepy that day, but I attributed it to the drive up.

I'm tempted to give it another try this weekend (we're heading up the mtn again assuming the weather holds) to see if it was a fluke thing or not, but at the same time I don't want to risk the overheating/exhausted feeling again.

lots of good analysis there.

just as a caveat, the 'real' altitude mentioned is still above 8,000 which is the official threshold for altitude illnesses. My son can tell you that the literally his first steps at 8,000 (unacclimatized) are brutal for him. Another 3-4 days later and he is good to go.

heat prostration/illness is another major problem and can also make you feel like you are dragging a ball and chain. On ice and snow we would call that glacier lassitude.

Oh I know that altitude technically begins around 8K' hence the quotations around real. =) As I mentioned, I've never had issues with altitude so far (Labor Day was my 3rd Whitney summit) but I'm heading to nepal in two weeks, so wanted to see what Diamox did on 'home turf' so to speak - rather than a 3rd world country out in the middle of nowhere on the trail.

Thanks for the kind words and information. I tend to be the person who either never feels side effects or gets the really odd/rare/uncommon ones... so it seems I am holding to that with the diamox.

=) tif

where in Nepal? When I went in fabulous fall I could not imagine going any other time.

We're trekking to base camp for our honeymoon

So I tried the Diamox but at a lower dose this past weekend as I was heading up Mt. Whitney again. I took 62.5mg that evening, (just before dinner - wanted time for any potential side effects to wear off before hiking the next morning after my last experience with 125mg)and within an hour I had some very slight tingling in my hands and soda tasted awful (I forgot about that issue when I ordered my drink with dinner lol).

After returning to the Portal from dinner, I had to walk to the restroom (about 200yds) and I felt the familiar flush/heat I experienced hiking on Labor Day, as well as some drowsiness (beyond usual night time drowsiness) So I think that I'm just relatively sensitive to the drug.

That being said - I think that taking a 'half' dose at night, to aid with breathing during sleeping might not be a horrible thing while I'm in Nepal and at sleeping higher altitudes than I've previously been at. I've got some acclimatization under my belt - summited Whitney twice this month (slept at the portal then trail camp both times) so that should help too.

=) tif

tif - It's my dream to trek to Base Camp. Unfortunately, I'll probably have to go alone (husband says it's his nightmare!). It's great that you are able to share that together. I've heard it's just amazing.