Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Winter Access Forum Skis in the backcountry.

For some time, I've dreamed of adding some type of backcountry skis to my toolbox. My main goals are to increase access to areas where roads are closed (such as Whitney Portal Road) and to increase my day hike range by allowing quicker descents. Although I enjoy downhill skiing, I'm not looking to tear up the mountain, ski fast or aggressively, or seek out steeps. I'm really looking for something between cross country skiing and ski mountaineering, as I understand those terms.
Saw some Black Diamond Arc Angels on sale at a huge discount at Sierra Trading Post. They are described as backcountry telemark/AT skis. Was thinking of trying them out with lightweight telemark bindings. Anyone use this type of set up?

Since you're mainly using the setup for transportation, I'd suggest focusing on the boot/binding setup. For example - if you already have plastic mountaineering boots, then make sure your bindings can work with those. If you don't, then get a pair of boots which will work with both skiing and climbing. I believe you're looking for a randonee setup, rather than telemarking.

And keep in mind, everything is a compromise. There's no perfect setup which will work equally well for randonee and winter mountaineering.

I agree with KevinR. The most versatile setup is plastic mountaineering boots using Silvretta 500 or similar binding on whatever skis you like. Real ski boots work better for downhill than mountaineering boots, but the mountaineering boots work better for everything else, including skiing uphill. I've used this setup for winter climbs on Muir, Whitney, Split, Middle Palisade, Sill-Polemonium-North Palisade-Starlight, White Mountain Peak, and Shasta. If I expect to do no ice climbing, no rock climbing, and little or no hiking, I use real ski boots, which fit the same bindings.

It's been a long time since I shopped for bindings, but I believe that most bindings don't work with mountaineering boots. Be sure to buy the Silvretta 500 or another binding that is designed to work with both kinds of boots. Telemark gear is a bad choice for skis-off mountaineering.

You might want to look at the options before you start buying. The closest brick and mortar stores to you are in San Diego and Mammoth. Google on something like alpine touring and one of those cities to find a place that will let you get hands on with a variety of types of gear to figure out what "some type" might work for you. Then try to find a place to try out the interesting ones.

Dale B. Dalrymple
http://dbdimages.com

You might also consider eBay or Craigs List. Several years ago I bought a lightly used setup on eBay from a fellow who lives up Bob Pickering's way. It has the Silvretta 404's which are similar to the 500's. Don't be putoff that these bindings have been around awhile.

Also consider getting some climbing skins.

Agreeing with KevinR again, the Silvretta 404 and 500 are very similar. I had 404's before I bought all new gear, including 500's. New 500's aren't cheap.

I just pulled out my old pair of Tua Excaliber Magnums with the Salewa bindings that Chouinard Equipment used to put on them. You could give those a try. (I bought the Tuas to replace a pair of skis with Ramer bindings that were stolen. Now I'm using Silvretta Pure's and Dynafits with plastic boots.)

The net offers some low prices and that's great if you already know the gear that's right for you or you want to try some independent experiments.

In Mammoth you can rent or buy alpine touring gear. I've read there may also be a consignment shop in Mammoth. I know you can get the 500's in San Diego if you have skis you like, but you can't rent alpine touring gear here yet.

Dale B. Dalrymple
http://dbdimages.com

Thanks for all the advice, I'm grateful as always for the chance to share others' experience. Sounds like all AT fans here. I've looked at AT gear, and quite frankly have been scared off by the prices of the bindings! Also, seems like most of the gear is primarily aimed at the thrill of the downhill, whereas I am looking more for a ski setup that can take me a little further into the backcountry a bit quicker than my snowshoes allow. Seems like telemark bindings are much cheaper and lighter and fit my needs. Am I missing the point here? Is telemark ill suited to my goals, or do I just happen to be talking to all AT folks?

In a word, yes.

Telemarking is specifically designed for a particular style of skiing. Skiing, not a combination of skiing, hiking/climbing etc.

I have several set ups and still even have some of those old Ramers (not stolen from Dale). It sounds like you might enjoy something lighter than a full AT set up. I still have loads of fun skiing terrain like Whitney Portal Road, White Mountain Road, and gentler terrain using a lighter free heel set up that is over ten years old now. Waxless base, metal edge Kahrus, with a cable binding still offer fair control, lightweight, and CHEAP! I have climbed fairly steep terrain in these by adding skins even to the wax less base. They are not great for steep down unless you hone yout tele technique. If you are considering these for day trips on snowed over road beds and the like AT gear is overkill. My two cents.

It's hard for us to know exactly what your goals are. You start your description with the use of snowshoes. Snowshoes let you use your mountain boots when you take them off. If you want to be able to use crampons you can snowshoe with boots that will work with crampons.

Light tele gear (cross-country) is efficient on level terrain. The boots are not good for other activities. Tele ranges up to heavy plastic boots in the weight, cost and performance class of downhill gear. These bindings don't provide a well controlled release.

One branch of AT consists of bindings that allow you to use your mountaineering boots in a ski binding. This includes the Ramers, my Salewas and the Silvretta 500s. Downhill performance is usually limited by the boots. Skis would typically range from metal edged light tele skis through AT and high end tele to bargain downhill skis. These bindings don't provide a well controlled release.

Dedicated AT boots and bindings (and skis) are lighter than downhill but may cost as much. They do offer a DIN standard release capability. Some have soles that you can walk in and use with crampons. A common AT spring skiing practice is to go up early in the morning when the snow surface is hard and ski down when the surface softens up. I've worn AT boots for the hike up and taken my skis on one of Kurt's snowy Mt. Baldy trips. This is the same gear I've used for resort skiing at Mammoth, Aspen and Lake Louise over the last 5 years.

This is not a complete description of the possible approaches. That's why I suggest you walk into some brick and mortar sales/rental shops to see what's out there and try what looks good to -you- before you start buying from the net.

Dale B. Dalrymple
http://dbdimages.com
http://www.dbdimages.com/NorpineMay2006/Norpine-Backcountry-Tour-2006

Two more considerations:

If you plan to break much trail with any deep snow, fat skis can provide a ton more flotation. This means a lot less exertion. The fatties I've skied seem to provide extremely stable handling for coming down soft and mixed snow. Fat skis also mean shorter skis which is nice for packing around.

As for skins, Black Diamond kickers, which only cover about 1/3 of your ski, generally provide plenty of traction, are easier to put on, and let you ski some without removing them rather than going back and forth in varying terrain.

I highly recommend skis as an alternative to snowshoes in the backcountry. Once you've skied down to the portal (and further down the road to your car), you'll never want to use snowshoes again!

I agree with the other posters - the Silvretta 500 bindings are great with mountaineering boots. However, they're designed for the "up" and offer little support/control on the "down."

If you're serious about alpine touring, I recommend spending the extra $100 to buy the Fritschi Diamir Freeride Pro bindings (you'll need to get AT boots). They are a legitimate binding for downhill, alpine style, skiing. In fact, you can use this setup at the resort as well as the BC.

If money isn't an object, pick up some dynafits and lightweight AT boots with tech (dynafit) inserts.

I know nothing about this subject from experiance side, but I would like to try it too.

The mountain shop in Shasta rents the whole setup. You can try out all the styles. http://www.thefifthseason.com/

The Freeride bindings are great and are fully capable of shredding inbounds. However, those more interested in the touring than the descent tend to go with the less burly and light weight Dynafit binding. For Dynafit, you need to make sure the AT boots you get are Dynafit compatible.

As mentioned above, a fat, light weight ski is advantageous in the BC.

Don't underestimate how difficult the "east side" approaches are. I'm pretty good on my feet and I can't think of a single place I've been where I haven't carried for at least part of the approach. (Thinking about Mosquito Flat as one exception, although I haven't been there. If you can get to Horseshoe Meadows, I'm pretty sure that would be another if you head towards Cottonwood or Trail Passes.)

The point: focus on lightweight as some have stated.

My Atomics (named after some mountain in Nepal that I can't think of at the moment) have Freerides attached to them. They are bomber bindings. I like a heavier, stiffer ski for inbounds, so I don't like these skis at resorts, but they are great in the backcountry.

Another tip: Spend as much time as possible off of the groomed runs when you head to resorts. Unless you're skiing spring corn, Sierra backcountry snow is "variable." (Read that as crap a lot of the time.)

That seems like such a great way to try out the equipment - I wish it were closer to me!

Cristobal, lots of good advice on here already, some is dated imho. Don't make up your mind until you look at and try dynafit bindings and compatible boots (made by many companies). The bindings cost the same as the BD/Fritchi Freeride and similar models, they just weight much less and tour much better. Downhill performance is equivalent if not better. Also, since you're in SD:

http://www.meetup.com/San-Diego-Backcountry-Skiers/

Our next event is in Mammoth and is for people with zero experience with backcountry skiing. You can rent all the gear you need at Mammoth Mountaineering.

Scott M.,
This sounds like what I was actually looking for - a lightweight, relatively cheap set up to have some fun. What kind of boots are you using?

Cristobal,
I am using some old Asolo Snowfield IIs which I doubt you can buy any longer. They are roughly similar in style to the current Rossignol BC X11s. I am considering buying a pair of these, too. If you go with the popular NNN bindings instead of the cable binding you would probably do fine with something like the Fischer BCX 6 or the Alpina NNN BC1550 boots. REI carries all of these. In the last two weeks I've skied White Mountain Road three times, Glacier Lodge Road and beyond twice, and once over in the Inyos on the set up I described. All good! Enjoy.
Scott