Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board JuAltitude Sickness: Mental or Physical?

I know a lot of you will be climbing this mountain for the first time this year. A lot of you will get a nasty case of altitude sickness too.

Just a curiosity in that the first time I summitted Whitney I had been no higher than Trail Camp. The day I decided I was going to summit NO MATTER WHAT was the day I climbed a couple of thousand vertical feet higher than I'd ever gone and made it without one symptom of altitude sickness.

The same thing happened with two people I guided up for the first time. One had never been higher than 7500' at Mammoth and that was decades earlier as a child. She came from sea level that weekend and walked up from the Portal to the summit with me in one day and barely suffered a small headache. The other person had never been higher than Lone Pine Lake. She was almost insanely determined to summit and she too made it in one day without symptoms.

Yet myself and these two girls suffered terrible altitude sickness the second time we attempted the mountain even though we were more fit and had been exposed to 14,000' altitudes. The only thing we did different was we lacked the monster determination we carried on the first trip.

Therefore, is altitude sickness mental or physical? I think the folks at the White Mountain High Altitude Research Station should kind of rethink their studies and look into the power of the mind to over-ride such the powerful affects, almost "injury," to the body that high altitude inflicts.

What say you?

GOLDEN RULE I
If you feel unwell at altitude it is altitude illness until proven otherwise.


GOLDEN RULE II
Never ascend with symptoms of AMS.


GOLDEN RULE III
If you are getting worse (or have HACE or HAPE), go down at once.

This is from a highly recommended official source:
http://www.ismmed.org/np_altitude_tutorial.htm


I will try to be gentle here....Yes, you can push on in the face of any illness for a while and can get by sometimes. Does that "mental" attitude mean that the illness was not physical? Of course not. As a physician on high altitude mountaineering trips, I have cared for the dead or dying. They can answer for you. At least the latter can, but not the former. It is up to you to choose the path "up" or "down." Choose wisely.

On my first attempt at Whitney in 2008 when I was puking my guts up on the switchbacks with my head feeling like someone was taking a ballpeen hammer to it, I'm pretty sure it wasn't mental. I arrived in Lone Pine the day before and spent the night at the Best Western.

In 2010 when I was successful, I spent two nights at Horseshoe Meadows and one night at Consultation lake and had zero symptoms other than I had a bit of insomnia at Consultation Lake.

I would say determination is my strongest suit. By Whitney hiker standards, I am not in the best shape. I go slow, but I am willing to endure a lot of pain to meet my goal. Lack of determination was not what caused my feeling of "unwellness" in 2008.

I'm gonna go with Hank on this one...

I have never heard or read anything about carrying a small o2 bottle along if you are concerned about AMS. Is this possible and do some hikers do it?

I think you guys are missing my point. I'm not saying altitude sickness won't happen. It's that these people OVER RODE it.What should have happened physcially did not.

I was with a friend of a friend on White Mtn last summer. She had never been above 10,000' I believe. She had so psyched herself out in fear of going up to 14,000' she was nearly in tears. She was scaring heself to death before she got on the trail. I told her not to let her fear rule her and go as far as she felt comfortable.

Well, she calmed down mentally, practically ran to the summit of White and came back down without one symptom of altitude sickness. This being her first major hike of the season and first 14'r.

There was a book written by a British journalist (can't remember his name) who had not climbed a mountain higher than a 1,000' hill in Scotland who went on a journey to chronical the Everest climbers. He ended up summitting from the north side. A complete amateur with no prior high altitude exposure, he just had the determination to do what he did. He should, by all laws of nature, gotten very sick....or died.

Dunno,just sayin'

I believe that there are both mental and physical components to dealing with altitude, as distinct from dealing with altitude sickness.

On the mental side, I watched a friend completely psyche himself out at the White Mountain trailhead -- he had no signs of AMS, but he started to get panicky as he thought about the prospect of going up to 14,000 feet. By the next morning, he was shaking and white as a sheet. It got worse as we started to walk up the trail, so after a mile or so, I convinced him to turn around, even though he still no signs of AMS (no headache, dizziness, nausea, or what-have-you). The stress alone was quite clearly making him seriously sick, albeit in a different way. This is someone who probably needs to experience high altitude in smaller increments until he gets more confidence.

On the physical side, I strongly believe in slow acclimatization, as supported by the science and personal experience. I was a total newbie to altitude last year, so I read up a lot on altitude, asked a lot of questions (as many folks here know), and took it slow. In many trips to altitude over the summer (including two trips up Whitney and one up White Mountain), I never got a headache, dizziness, or nausea at altitude. But when I say I took it slow, I mean it. So, from my limited personal experience, and realizing one cannot extrapolate to others, I don't believe headaches are a given at altitude, let alone something one should just push through. For me, a headache would be a sign that something is wrong (maybe dehydration, maybe AMS, maybe something else), and that it is time to stop and assess.

Not everyone is as susceptible to altitude sickness as some though. There are some people that feel effects of altitude at 7-8000 feet, while others have few to no symptoms up to 14k and higher. It isn't whether you are an amateur or first timer that will decide that, simply your body physiology.

Similarly someone who has had no troubles the last 15 times at altitude can have issues the next time for any variety of reasons.

I highly doubt altitude sickness has much to do with your mental determination. Some days your body will adjust properly, other days it won't. Also keep in mind that the things you do before you start your trip matter as well (proper hydration, a good night of sleep, etc.).

What I do believe is that you adjust quicker the more you go on altitude (even though some studies will disagree with that statement). I can go much higher without issues than I could 5 years orso ago.

Having suffered altitude sickness less that a 1/4 mile from the summit hut, I can tell you it is a combination of mental and physical. Your body needs to rid your blood of carbon dioxide at an optimum rate. With the change in altitude this may not happen fast enough. As a result, you feel like you are suffocating. You are having a panic attack. You feel like you are going to die. You are scared of dying and your body really kicks into over drive, your heart beats faster and your non essential organs shut down (bowels etc.). People who are having a panic attack at sea level go through similar carbon dioxide suffocating symptoms.

For those who don't have AMS and want to know, start thinking about how your lungs are coughing up CO2 at 14K' and then think about what would happen if this slowed down. You don't have much control over it consciously but a little fear may induce the effect. By thinking about the complexity of what your body has to do, imagine if your blood stream slowily began to saturate with carbon dioxide. How much will it cost to have me air lifted off the mountain? Maybe at this point you too can see what AMS feels like.

For those who do get AMS, I feel that breathing exercises prior to the hike up Mt. Whitney may help.

first attempt to answer

second attempt

Your "point" is wrong -- scary wrong; what you are asserting is fundamentally ignorant at best, potentially fatal at worst.

THERE IS NO MORE MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY DETERMINED INDIVIDUAL THAN A SOLDIER COMPLETING A HIGH ALTITUDE MISSION, AND EVEN THEY ARE STRICKEN DOWN BY AMS, and while the mission must be completed, individuals are expendable....and they are expended as they "mentally attempt to override" AMS.



What Laws of nature? Whose Laws?? The "nature" of AMS in itself is that it is radom and inconsistent.



Dunno -- you are correct, you don't know. Do yourself a favour and read up on AMS;start by reading Dr. Harvey Lankford's -- a published high altitude medical EXPERT -- post.

I love you, Bee

Bee,

Yeah. What you said! You wrote what I was thinkin' but chose not to say.

Brandon

B-man!

I had to write it 'cause the Frog(High Altitude Warfare Specialist) was going to take over and....welll...the forum might have melted!!!!!!!!

B

(he is STILL ranting in the background!!)(love you too, Carole!)

Funny, Carole was listening to me rant until you posted...

Altitude illness in all of its forms is a very real physiological reaction of your body to decreased atmospheric pressure and oxygen levels in the air you are breathing.

Harvey's comments are spot on. Ignoring the signs of AMS/HACE/HAPE has led to people dying. I've seen individuals who were swearing, "I'm fine", begin - in minutes - to exhibit altered levels of consciousness (i.e., impaired decision making), ataxia, and other very serious symptoms of altitude sickness.

There are a wide range of factors that can contribute to or mitigate the risk of getting AMS. Many of these factors vary within an individual and may affect you on one trip and not another. Recognizing the signs/symptoms is crucial.

Remember - the definitive treatment for altitude sickness is rapid descent. Pushing on is very risky and ignoring the signs is a recipe for disaster.

Many mountain rescues involve climbers with summit fever who let their ambition override their common sense.

I live at 6,000 ft. I have had friends visit that get sick half way up to the house. I hired a someone to do drywall and he had to quit because he just threw up every time he came to my house. Do not underestimate the effects of altitude sickness. It is real and you never know when and how bad it will hit you. If you continue up the mountain because you think it might be mind over matter, you will endanger your life and the lives of those who are trying to rescue you from your debate. I am sure the families of those who died on Whitney, because they continued to climb when they should have listened to their bodies, would agree with me that you need to listen to your common sense

And then check out this website on altitude illness and its many manifestations. It's one I believe Harvey recommends repeatedly.

Bee, you da bomb girl . . .

I agree with the OP, it’s all about uber-uber-mind power and the intense desire for Cheetos


Trust me…… nothing else works

ps, COKE COLA and ham&cheese sammies also helps.........

Hi So try this simple test on your buddy . Look down at his foot and back to make eye contact, do this several times then say how is your foot , respond Oh nothing, You are not in any pain? , It should be fine if you can't notice any difference with the other foot , have you had it checked, are those new boots? It's doing it again, They will start to get concerned so spread this out over several hours. The mind has no effect on the Physical functions. I guess. Thanks Doug

Says the guy who sleeps only 20 minutes a night using self-hypnosis . . .