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#83735 04/15/11 02:36 PM
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I want to introduce my wife to some back country overnight hiking this summer and she is freaked out by bears. (to many viewings of Nat Geo programs is my guess) Personally I'm more concerned with lightning. I have always used a bell on the belt as a noise maker for bears per a rangers suggestion in the back country of Yellowstone. Though I own guns I don't feel it's prudent to carry one while backpacking.
Any suggestions to provide a better comfort level for my wife?


“I haven’t been everywhere, but it’s on my list.”

arnesarmy #83736 04/15/11 02:41 PM
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Tell her she'll be lucky if she gets to see a bear in the wild. Bears are not a danger in the Sierra. No need for a gun. Just practice proper food storage to protect the bear from your food, that's all.

arnesarmy #83737 04/15/11 03:31 PM
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In 14 years going to the Sierra, I have seen one, count'm, one bear in the wilderness. In conversations with others, this is normal. Many of my friends have never seen a bear in the wilderness. I have seen more in the heavily peopled Ice House Canyon in SoCal...total 3.

I have seen more in campgrounds and towns, one in WP and one dumpster diving in June Lake.

Last edited by wbtravis5152; 04/15/11 03:31 PM.
wbtravis5152 #83738 04/15/11 04:12 PM
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I hadn't seen a bear in the Sierras for many, many years until the last couple of years. Both bears were looking for food in parking areas, one came within a few feet of me (I actually came within a few feet of him) next to the bear boxes at the Portal hikers campground. I didn't even see him because it was dark and I had my lamp off so I wouldn't shine it on any other hikers up at 2:30 AM. The other bear kept coming back to a trash can full of fish guts.

If you want to feel a bit more comfortable, take a view of the TV show "Bear Whisperer". I think it's on National Geographic channel. It shoots in Mammoth and shows how they handle the bears up there. They've only had ONE person "nipped" by a very frightened bear in the last 20 years. In that same time, many bears have been hit and or killed by cars. The problem with bears always seems to be from people leaving their trash in the open or food not secured.

The way the guy in Mammoth scares the bears away is just by walking towards the bears. The bears don't really want to be near people.

I haven't seen a bear outside of campgrounds for probably 20 years.



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quillansculpture #83740 04/15/11 04:50 PM
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I've actually never seen a bear in the Sierra....and I grew up in Lake Tahoe. The bears were there, they just didn't want to be around us. Though nowadays there are a lot more bear sightings in south lake tahoe than there were when I lived there in the 70s and 80s.

The only time I have encountered a wild black bear was in West Virginia at a coal mine. And like Joe said, when I walked toward the bear, she (and her three cubs) made a hasty retreat. Until actually interacting with a bear like that, I admit that I had a little fear that one might pop out on the trail and try to establish dominance. Now I know that they are doing their best to avoid me.

TomDietz #83743 04/15/11 05:13 PM
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I saw a lot of bears last year. Including one in Yosemite (Upper Pines Campground) that appeared to be heading right to my tent in the middle of the night, until my dog started barking at it, at which point it turned on a dime and loped away (no, there was nothing scented in my tent, I did use the bear box). Then there was the bear in broad daylight, standing in the middle of the Hetch Hetchy trail. And a bear in Sequoia, about 15 feet off the trail, pretty much minding his own business, who ran off as our hiking party approached. And the bear that I did not see at Onion Valley, but heard the camp host scare off with lots of noise.

What I have experienced is that bears do not like loud noises, and that making lots of loud nasty noise (or having a barking dog) will cause them to go away (assuming no cub protection issue arises).

Akichow #83744 04/15/11 05:40 PM
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I completed a hike in 1964 with my Scout Troop from Onion Valley to Kings Canyon, where my parents picked me up. That first night off the mountain, I slept in a nice big tent on a cot before going home. Some guy in the next campsite across the road went to sleep in the back of his pickup truck next to the ice chest. Well, about 3 a. m. a big old black bear crawled into the bed, sat down on top of him and proceeded to open up the ice chest and chow down. The entire campground was awakend by this nut ball's screams, which didn't phase the bear. We watched in amazement as the bear finished his meal, climbed down from the truck and waddled off toward the Kings River. Lesson learned---improper food storeage leads to 99 percent of the "problems" with black bears.

arnesarmy #83753 04/16/11 01:57 AM
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As others have indicated, the Sierra bear problems are really at human-populated, food-intensive sites like the Whitney Portal, Mammoth Lakes and Yosemite - rarely anywhere along the trails. I used to carry Counter Assault pepper spray with me when I hiked in the Sierra, but I've pretty much stopped making the effort. Maybe your wife would have a greater self-confidence level by packing the spray?

I will admit that my closest call with a bear was in the Sierra, though. It was last year, and I actually came in slight physical contact with the bear - as it ran past me when I surprised it dumpster-diving in a condo garage in Mammoth Lakes. Scared the livin' bejezus outta me, as I had no clue he was there till he brushed past me. My first thought was, "damn big dog!"

Black bear encounters in Montana, Alaska, Wyoming, Canada, even Tennessee, can be bad news in the wild. California has a bear population that seems to have mostly absorbed the west coast laid-back, surfer-dude temperament.

bulldog34 #83754 04/16/11 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted By bulldog34
California has a bear population that seems to have mostly absorbed the west coast laid-back, surfer-dude temperament.


This is so true, plus we don't seem to be in their food chain. Well maybe some nuts are.


Mike
arnesarmy #83758 04/16/11 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted By arnesarmy
I want to introduce my wife to some back country overnight hiking this summer and she is freaked out by bears. (to many viewings of Nat Geo programs is my guess) Personally I'm more concerned with lightning. I have always used a bell on the belt as a noise maker for bears per a rangers suggestion in the back country of Yellowstone. Though I own guns I don't feel it's prudent to carry one while backpacking.
Any suggestions to provide a better comfort level for my wife?


Yes. I'd strongly recommend you have her read the information at the North American Bear Center, run by Lynn Rodgers, the former chief bear biologist for the US Forest Service. He has written more scientific articles on bears than most people have ready. Here is one of their pages:

http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/b...lack-bears.html

he knows more about these bears than anyone:



If you feel that she or you must carry something for safety, pepper spray is the way to go, like this hiker:


Ken #83759 04/16/11 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Bears don't kill people, people kill bears
Ann Bryant
September 2003
We are now at the end of another summer season, which, as usual, took its toll on our bears. Let me ask you, my readers, how many people do you think were killed this summer by bears in Tahoe? Or in California for that matter? Actually, I’d like to expand on that and ask instead, how many people have ever been killed in California or Nevada by black bears (the only species left alive in either state)? Some of you will be amazed when I tell you, factually, (ask the DFG) that no person has ever been killed in either state by a black bear……..ever!

Now I want to share with you something I find extremely disturbing. Just this summer alone, so far, we humans have killed at least seven bears. Two were accidentally hit by cars, but the others were deliberately shot and killed. I hear over and over again how dangerous these bears are. But they are, in reality, the ones whose lives are in danger. They are dying at our hands, we have not lost a single one of our species at their paws. Who is the dangerous animal?

One of our mother bears was shot by a part-time resident across the river from the entrance to Squaw Valley a couple of weeks ago because she had the nerve to try and get at his garbage which he’s never bothered to secure in a bear-proof bin. This person had a bear in 2001 who tried to get his garbage and he threatened to kill that one too, but I ‘mentioned’ it to the Tahoe World and he changed his mind for the meantime. But did he get a bear-proof enclosure? No. Instead, two years later, he takes his gun, sits outside and waits for the bear to come onto his property and shoots her three times while she attempts to run away (all shots were verified in the rear). She had two six-month-old cubs. They were still nursing. They keep coming back to the area where their mother was killed, looking for her. This person has told the neighbors he plans to shoot them too. (Where do people like this come from?)

I remember getting the call, early this spring from someone who lives in Squaw Valley, telling me “We have a mama bear with two adorable cubs! I just saw them passing through and I wanted you to know about them so you can make sure to keep them safe” We never had a single report, all summer long, of them getting into any trouble. One time, acting like a very normal mother bear, she swatted at someone’s dog up near a hiking trail for chasing and tormenting her cubs. What kind of dumb animals would they be if they didn’t defend their babies? (Once again, please make sure your dog is under voice command or on a leash while in the bears’ territory)

In Homewood, another part-time homeowner leaves a window wide open with a bowl of peaches on the dining room table just inside. A hungry bear (bears are always hungry) passes by and starts to come in the window for the irresistible treats inside and is immediately scared off by the husband who awakens while hearing him trying to come in. One week later these same human beings, believe it or not, leave their summer cabin unattended for two weeks with another dining room window wide open, even after knowing first-hand what comes natural to a bear. So, of course, a bear comes right on in and raids the kitchen, eating just about everything he can find (which is a lot!). No one is there to chase him off and so he thinks he’s got some great friends. He’ll be back. It’s an old cabin and the owners haven’t felt it was important enough or worth the expense to put in a bear-proof garbage enclosure, even though Environmental Health, the DFG, the BEAR League, the Sheriff, their caretaker, and the neighbors…..recommended it highly. So the bear tries to get the garbage in the 1920’s wooden garage and that is simply more than these people can tolerate. After all, we just can’t be expected to be bothered with this anymore, these bears have to go!

So, by demand of these people a trap is set one week later in their yard, which is a natural pathway to the Lake for many of Homewood’s bears. Two nights later our gentle old male bear, Brutus, enters the trap and is shot and killed by the trapper hired by the DFG to do the dirty work. Brutus was a very large bear. The bear who entered these people’s house left muddy footprints on the outside wall, they were small, no bigger than what a two year old could make. This same two year old was caught attempting to enter other houses. Since Brutus was killed five additional houses have been raided by the two year old. Brutus never entered anyone’s house. He never would, and he never will. He is dead.

I remember getting calls about him from the people who live here in Homewood when he was first seen in our area. Everyone commented on how big and beautiful and shy he was. He would pass through in the night on the way to the Lake, never bothering anyone or anything. People would call just to say how magnificent he was and how much they appreciated seeing him, and to ask us to please keep him safe.

How I have failed, our bears and the people who counted on me to protect them. I wrote my ‘tips’ in the newspapers (but who read them). I spoke at numerous meetings all summer long (but it was mostly ‘locals’ listening and they already know). The BEAR League hung posters up all over the basin (but tourists stole them to take home because they were ‘cool’). Since the year 2000, twenty-four of our bears have been deliberately shot and killed by depredation permits and twenty-seven have been hit and killed by cars. I don’t have statistics on how many were killed by hunters (because it sickens me to think about it) but I know there are many.

It’s time to permanently cast away our rampant, ignorant, blatantly false misconceptions about who the dangerous creature is, we need to wake up and take a look at the real picture ………Who is killing who?

The BEAR League can be reached by e-mail at bearsnsquirrels@sbcglobal.net or through our website at: www.savebears.org or by calling 530-525-7297.


Ken #83760 04/16/11 02:19 PM
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if we don't see bears on a JMT hike, we feel cheated. They are fun characters that add some of the "wild" experience to the hike. My kids love these encounters. Probably because they have never been told to be afraid of them, they respond to bear encounters like old pros - my son pointed this one out to me with a simple "dad - look, bear." Meet Teddybear #76, on her way across the JMT to find some chow in a bog:



we eventually had to move on, and when we walked past the bear, she made sure to stay at about 50 feet safety distance from us, but never left the area. I think the bear was the one who was afraid when we began to approach on the trail.

I bought some pepper spray a few years ago when my kids first went out on the trail, but left it behind even the first time out when I remembered that I never needed such tools to get bears scared off when I first came to the Sierra during a period when bears were much more of a problem (pre-bearcanister). Now you barely ever see bears and you are truly lucky to see them during the day. The best place to find them is a campground in Yosemite, such as Tuolumne Meadows, somewhere near a careless camper who leaves his pantry out in the open.

In '09 we had one come though our camp early in the morning at TM. The bear just sniffed on our packs and moved on (normal if you don't leave food in there and keep it all unzipped). An hour later we met the bear again, chased up a tree by campers and a ranger, who was putting on the "negative conditioning" with a paintball gun. The poor thing looked like a scared cat, barely hanging on to the tree.

Since that day, my kids want to protect them from people. See above post on people killing bears. Now that firearms are legal in National Parks, I expect the type of people who Doug recently described to me with the proper local nomencalture ("we call them rednecks") to get back out there, and kill things, because they can.

Just two summers ago I met a hiker near VVR who was carrying a Glock 18 on his hip, all camo gear and clothes, didn't speak to anyone near the ferry drop, and appeared to be constantly checking the area around himself for "threats" - that shifty character and others of that same species are the real threat out there in the wilderness, not the bears. Luckily they don't make it up to JMT country very often.



Fishmonger #83761 04/16/11 03:54 PM
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My two cents:

I've been keeping more detailed records on my outdoor activities since 2003 regarding notable wildlife seen; in 9 years on 355 hikes over 2500 miles, I've seen 40 bears; including 27 Black bears and 13 Grizzly (Brown) Bears.

This includes all hiking trails (including the Sierras, Rockies, Japan, Canada, etc.) There are no more Grizzlies left in the Sierras currently, despite appearing on the state
flag of California. All the California bear sightings have been black bears and all have been in the Sierras (Sequoia NP and Yosemite primarily).

Since hindsight is 20/20 (haha) I’ve also kept records of their behavior on being sighted or if not being aware of me (usually they are).

In all instances, most bears would move from me given the opportunity; some moved more quickly (ran away), some stood their ground before going away (in some instances, more than 25 min). In short, I’ve luckily had no attacks. Knock on wood.

I’ve literally almost run into three bears on the Happy Isles-Half Dome Trail in Yosemite in early morning hiking and late afternoon hiking (one was with surprisingly several people on the trail.). The former the bear was ripping open a pack it stole from someplace and eating a Clif bar (not kidding) and another we had a standoff with in the woods. After staring at each other for 30min, it walked away and we moved on, making much noise to not to surprise it.

As others have mentioned, bears are attracted to food, be it a carcass, a nice fresh meadow full of juicy leaves or a messy, odiferous campsite. Campsites are usually easy pickings for bears who become habituated to foraging near them, and then unfortunately might become a problem bear, learning to associate food with humans. This never ends well for the bear.

I’ve heard mixed reviews on the bell theory. When hiking in known bear country, especially grizzly country, I try not to be alone, and make as much noise as I can (yelling, banging my poles etc) and usually don’t camp in places like Yellowstone, Montana, etc…

Some rules of thumb:

Try not to surprise a bear. Make noise when you hike-this will alert a bear to your presence and if with cubs, allow a mother to move her cubs to safety in enough time. Bells are an unnatural noise for bears, they may not know what to make of it and I’ve heard anecdotal evidence from rangers and some other sources of bears being attracted to the noise.

You don’t want to stumble upon a carcass. Ask Rangers if there are any known carcasses nearby in bear country (esp. Grizzly country) – stay away from these areas. In October, bears move into hyperphagia and go on eating sprees, entering areas, they might not typically be common in quest of food – know where these areas might be.

In the Spring/early summer, be wary of if there are any cubs in the area, mothers will protect their cubs with every ounce of their flesh, so if there have been signs of young cubs seen, be warned. Noise here helps.

Keep a clean campsite (for obvious reasons) – bears will smell food from a far distance away. If you’re in a crowded site and others won’t clean up or you can smell them yourself, you might want to move. I know sometimes this is not possible, but consider the alternative.

Try to avoid hiking off trail in known bear areas, especially in Brown bear country. You may stumble upon a den or daybed which won’t go well if ‘Ol Smokey is resting there.
Same goes for hiking through huckleberry patches (in season), etc…this is a food source for a bear, and they will defend it.




nyker #83762 04/16/11 06:10 PM
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I just have to make a comment here. I appreciate that most people will not take the trouble to actually go to the site I linked to, the North American Bear Center.

The previous poster made mention of a number of things that are common wisdom, but are factually victim to a huge problem for black bears: there tends to be tremendous confusion between Grizzly (Brown) bears, and black bears. I used to think exactly the same things.

As the site points out, in development of the two species, Grizzlies were top chain predators. Their natural instinct is to attack, when surprised, when threatened, with cubs.

Black bears, in contrast, are NOT predators, but tend to be prey, and they were the prey of many animals, including Grizzlies. In terms of their attitude, it is much closer to deer. Their natural instinct is to run away.

One of the most surprising differences is with cubs. Grizzlies are well known for their unpredictability in attacking when with cubs. But from the bear biology site:

Quote:
A big revelation to me was how reluctant black bear mothers are to defend their cubs against people, even when the family is cornered in a den and I'm trying to stick the mother with a needle to tranquilize her. Defense of cubs is more a grizzly bear trait. There is no record of anyone being killed by a mother black bear defending her cubs, and attacks are very rare. We routinely capture black bear cubs in the presence of mothers and have never been attacked.

Black bears are so timid today partly because they evolved alongside such powerful predators as saber-toothed cats, American lions, dire wolves and short-faced bears, all of which became extinct only about 12,000 years ago. Black bears were the only one of these that could climb trees, so black bears survived by staying near trees and developing the attitude: run first and ask questions later. The timid ones passed on their genes to create the black bear of today.

That timid attitude still serves black bears well now that people have spread across North America. Startled black bears run away, often to a tree. By contrast, a startled grizzlies may charge and occasionally attack, making grizzlies over 20 times more dangerous than black bears

Ken #83763 04/16/11 06:17 PM
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Quote:


Spray more effective than guns against bears: study


Guns were effective only 67 per cent of the time because shooting accurately during a grizzly charge is difficult, and it takes an average of four hits to kill a charging grizzly bear.

Most of the incidents involved grizzlies. The remainder involved black bears and polar bears.

The research dealt with concerns that wind can interfere with accuracy and can blow the spray back on the user. In 71 incidents studied, wind interfered with accuracy 5 times, caused minor irritation to the user 10 times, and caused near incapacitation twice. The spray was used at an average distance of 12 feet.

There were no reports of the spray malfunctioning unless one considers 11 additional incidents where it was applied to objects like tents. When used in that way, the spray attracts bears to roll in it.

Smith et al. concluded that bear spray is an effective alternative to lethal force.

Reference

Smith, T. S., S. Herrero, T. D. DeBruyn, and J. M. Wilder. 2008. Efficacy of bear deterrent spray in Alaska. J. Wildl. Manage. 72(3): 640-645.

Ken #83764 04/16/11 06:57 PM
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Have your wife watch this GREAT video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkwy0scRXBU

arnesarmy #83766 04/17/11 05:29 AM
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I have seen a few bears, they must think I am ugly or something one look at me and they run away. I can't even get a picture.

The smaller creatures are greater pests, worst is the tiny flying kind.

arnesarmy #83767 04/17/11 12:13 PM
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I have two experiences with bears, both very positive. While in Mammoth, my son and I were walking near Lake Mary around 7am. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw what I thought was a dog walk by us. It actually just brushed my leg as it squeezed between me and a tree. Turns out it was what I guess to be a juv bear. I kept calm and just told my son to check out the bear. I think my reaction helped keep my son, who was 6 at the time, calm. The bear proceeded to the shoreline to eat a morning fisherman's string of fish.

Last summer, we had a very large adult bear walk past the campsite before dark. There were several people around and it really showed not interest in us. It just was looking for easy pickings from careless campers. It was dusk, and it strolled to the side of our campsite, laid down, and watched us for a while. Before going to bed, we no longer saw the bear, so we retired for the night. Not more than 10 minutes later, the bear strolled through our site looking for food. I heard what is now a familiar couple of hits on the bear box, then it went further into the campsite. Bears want food, they really have no interest in us. Let your wife know that common sense is really all she needs.
Also, just a reminder. The bears at portal have figured out that if the door on the bear box is not closed properly, a couple of taps will open the box, and out comes all of your food. If you notice the box will not secure, let the site host know.

arnesarmy #83769 04/17/11 01:42 PM
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Yosemite Valley backpacker camp – last June:
As usual the BP site was completely packed this early morning…tents and bodies everywhere…The late-night stragglers filling in the holes. It was just that time when the early-morning risers, the actual backpackers, begin thinking about their day’s journey ahead. Outside my tent, I heard a noise, unzipping my tent, only to discover a bear just outside playing with my Bearikade, much like a trained seal would. He was lying on his back, all four legs in the air, my Bearikade being somehow balanced on his nose…comical.

I got up, yelled out “Bear!”… (You all have heard this before)…others/everybody it seemed immediately arose and came on over – a similar scene played out probably every night somewhere in Yosemite Valley. This bear here was small to mid-sized…maybe 150 - 200 pounds, and, unfortunately, already sporting a numbered collar and an ear tag, indicative of his recent past being somewhat jaded, a problematic denizen. He was obviously unafraid of man and more than accustom to the usual banging of pots, yelling, etc….this bear, unless it soon developed some fear, he was destined for a quick demise.

Walking over, I began searching for a few granite chunks – persuaders...something to bounce off the bear’s rear end but, just as soon as I found an adequate supply of good-sized ammo, my aim was thwarted by the now fast-arriving curious masses; all the resident campers/ sleepers just up. Amazingly most of them were toting along their cell phone cameras, approaching/now standing/ situated between me and the bear. The many camera users (frickin’ technology meets wilderness) actually formed a close circle, stationed all around the bear, taking pictures, and because of this crowding/ lack of view, some bike riders (about 10 – 12 Germans were also there, doing a X-country jaunt/staying over), unable to watch the bear but nonetheless still intrigued, they decided to climb up on their bicycles and formed another outer circle pedaling around the bear. BTW, the bear was still playing with my Bearikade.

So there we all were: the bear in the center of the BP campground, playing with my Bearikade, a close choreographed circle of cell phone, photo-takers gathering around the playing bear, an outer ring of bicyclists trying to see the bear, another ring of campers’ content with merely standing far away but still banging their pots trying to scare off the bear…and then there was the “seen this all before” backpackers – doing nothing. This was how my morning started, site 12, Yosemite Valley BP campsite…I honestly thought I was in one of those old Hollywood musicals where they show the overhead shots, like the ones directed by Busby Berkley.

Just when I thought that it couldn’t get any stranger, another bear walked into the picture…the crowd hushed, immediately reacting to this new presence and temporarily parting, allowing the two bears enough room to come together. The first bear took a big (audible) sniff of this new arriving bear. Turns out, this new bear was a female, and the first one a male. How could I tell? Guess? Now it was time for act two.

Yes my friends, this was a real nature lesson. My still intact bear-can forgotten; he quickly demonstrated what else bears do in the springtime woods. I had never seen bears mating… (Just like dogs but with lots bigger smiles)…all happening in the center of the campground. Everybody started hooping and laughing, the camera folk momentarily paused then continued, taking even more pictures, the German bike riders, still pedaling – they now started singing, and the pot-bangers…well they finally did stop banging their pots…thank God.

After a good 20 minute show, replete with bear-moanings and some sort of screeching sounds, they separated. The crowd started to applaud…a standing ovation…he was impressive. The sun now up and the day starting, everyone went back to their own tents, getting ready for whatever the Sierra day offered.



markskor #83770 04/17/11 03:56 PM
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"After a good 20 minute show, replete with bear-moanings and some sort of screeching sounds, they separated."


I love a story with a happy ending....and apparently, so do the bears.

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