Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board JMT in July/August 2012 advice and Rx.

EP: yeah I have been rethinking the whisperlight since I discovered gasification. Its not so much a choice as a 20 year habit. Hey, don't laugh, for the 20 years before that it was a Coleman 502 that I was given on my first Whitney trip. Between now and 2012 I will be experimenting with the gasifier alone, and with solid fuel tabs in it for cold camps.

My food strategy is based on a few fundamentals, which can yield a huge variety of stuff thats better than anything I have had from the usual brands.

List a few basics from each category, put them together in different combinations and with different sauces, and voila, different dish every breakfast and dinner, rotate a little variety for lunches. For example dinners

Carbs: Rice, Beans, Angel Hair pasta, bulghur wheat, diced potatoes, corn

Veggies. broccoli; mirapois (carrots onions celery), mixed frozen, julienned summer squash onions carrots; winter squash, spinach; you name it

Proteins: popcorn shrimp, rice/corn/beans/, dried cod, shrooms, jerk chicken, powdered eggs, powdered cheese

Fats: Shortening, bacon fat, olive oil, coconut oil, powdered butter

Sauces: yellow curry, red curry, marinara, pesto, alfredo, chili, broths, espagnole, hollandaise, cream, marsala

Arrange the carbs and sauces in a matrix, and you will find over 75 different combinations, about a third to half of which are recognizable as decent dishes. Add veggies and proteins in different combinations and voila: pasta primavera, tabouli salad, red curried shrimp, scampi al pesto, pot au feu, chili, pasta veggie marinara, yellow veggie curry, mac n cheese, veggie stew, seafood chowder, etc etc etc.

Variety of results, but a few basic ingredients, all dried, vacuum packed and all prepared similarly: hot water and a little simmering, 3 min max, for the starch (never boil anything, even pasta) , add veggies and protein to soak, add sauce, let stand till cooled to palatable temperature. Lots of work at home in the kitchen, almost none on the trail.

Beans are fully cooked then dried, rice is Success Brown Rice, pasta is angel hair, potatoes/ veggies are all blanched and dried, sauces are reduced, dried and pulverized in a food processor. Some fats are cooked in, others added on the trail. All are vacuum packed. Vacuum bags are pierced with a pin when the bags go into the bear canister.

Thanks, saltydog, for the food ideas. I intend to experiment with some of these suggestions that I haven't already tried. I already do similar things for dinners, but breakfasts and lunches are completely different for me. And the devil is in the details. For instance, I've found that a number of (home) dehydrated items just don't rehydrate all that easily at altitude. They end up crunchy or chewy, not too digestible, or it takes forever to simmer/soak them. That goes for a number of vegetables and just about any dehydrated meat I've ever had. I wish I had a lyophilizer. Angel hair pasta more often than not turns into a big clot of glue in my experience. Above a certain altitude I've found that just about any pasta has a hard time getting beyond that chewy gluey stage.

So in other words, there are details of equipment and technique which don't come across in a 500 word post.

It's funny about stoves, they're kind of like a religion. People do convert but it's rare and it raises eyebrows.

Thanks again and happy trails!

ep: check this out, with surrounding articles. Nutritionist/distance hiker recommends higher carbs, lower protein (for ethical reasons) and 35-40% fat. Likes fat as fuel for moderate exercise, says body will burn fat no matter what (maybe you should put on weight!) and has lots of recipes and other practical advice

Thanks for the link, saltydog. I mostly agree with her. I just find that for me too much fat during the day bogs me down as it takes too long to digest. At night I can gorge on richer food but there's still a limit to what I'll find palatable. Finding the balance is the key.

It turns out she also agrees with me that 1.5 lbs/day of dehydrated food is insufficient for difficult hiking (once the reserves are burned off). She puts the amount at about 2.5 lbs/day, possibly more if carrying a heavy load.

Should I try to fatten up? Haha, maybe. But hiking is just one thing I do and being fatter would be a disadvantage for almost everything else. Plus I wonder: is an extra pound on your belly really better than one on your back?

DIdn't see the 2.5 lbs. Can you point me to that? You sure that's dry weight? Thats 4480 calories at only 4 c/g. For me, 2.5 lbs would be at least 5600 c,

I do see where she says she says 27 oz for her (at 125 lbs) but I can't tell where she gets it at only 3100 calories with anything like 35 -40% fat. That's only a hair over 4 c/g.

As for body fat, I can't imagine what you might do -- other than competitive body building -- for which more than 8% body fat would get in the way, but more power to you. In any event I can think of one advantage to carrying a few extra pounds on board: the muscles are already conditioned for it, as opposed to those that you just load on your back occasionally.

This post is assisting in many ways as I continue to plan. The biggest change for me has been the utter scrutiny of all my gear. I'm not necessarily looking for the lightest, however, I'm looking at the lightest for a given task. I just got a JetBoil SOL @ 10.5 oz that I'm trying out. I usually use a MSR fly w/GSI dualist which easily weighs twice that. My meals are planned around mostly freeze dried and homemade (dry) meals, and homemade powerbars so the SOL seems to fit the bill. It also allows a little latitude if fish are around. Although, I agree a small wood burning stove is brilliant. I will be building one outta Ti for my 'non' park ventures. My bag will be either WM or FF @ about 1.5lbs, and my tent is a Trekker @ 24 oz. I have been looking @ either Bishop or Kearsage(?) for resupply. I've posted looking for any others interested in splitting a drop outta Bishop, however, that not withstanding I'm likely to hike out Kearsage. For me, this venture is not a race. Not that there's anything wrong with that, maybe next time . For me it's going to be a little fishing, a whole lotta photography and more of a walkabout.

Look under her "snacks" link. I think she is making these assumptions: 30% fat, 5500 Cal/day, no weight loss.

While it is on the lower end of the bell curve for the general population, I think you are incorrect about 8% being an extremely low body fat percentage. Male endurance atheletes are often leaner. Competetive body builders flirt with the minimum which I have read is around 3% of body weight for a male. Obviously people come in different shapes and sizes and metabolisms. I don't pump iron or do anything special.

edit:: Migolito, good luck. Sorry again for hijacking your thread.

EP:

You're kidding, right? Isn't the lower "end " of the curve by definition extreme? Bet 8 s the lowest 1%.

Essential fat in men runs 2-5 percent. 8 is at the lower third of the range for highly trained active athletes (5-13). Whatever you want to call it, statistically, 8 is low. Normal fitness (most guys at the gym four or five days a week) is 14 -17.

Statistically 8% is low for the general population, but not for an endurance athlete. I don't feel extreme, there are so many guys way more fit than me, but if you want to give me that label that's okay.

Here is an excerpt from Sport Nutrition (Jeukendrup and Gleeson):

"Male athletes with the lowest estimates of body fat (less than 6%) include middle-distance and long-distance runners and bodybuilders. Male basketball players, cyclists, gymnasts, sprinters, jumpers, triathletes, and wrestlers average between 6% and 15% body fat. Olympic marathon runners have 3% to 4% body fat, and Tour de France cyclists have between 4% and 6% body fat. Male athletes involved in power sports such as football, rugby, and ice and field hockey have slightly more variable levels of body fat (6% to 19%)."

OK: what say we give Mike his thread back? Here's my gesture:

this weeks Backpacker Mag newsletter is all about the JMT:
UL
Logistics
Yosemite Leg
GPS track

You guys are funny. There ain't no such thing as hijacking a thread, as long as good info keeps coming out. In this case it has.

Glad to hear it. So how about that LeConte or preferably Kearsarge resupply?

Shot an email to the packer and am waiting on his reply. Please note, this is for 2012, not 2011. I know its still a year off, but...

Yep, 2012. I am doing HST this year, JMT next.

Why do you need "appetizing food"?
Am I correct that you are OK hiking on 3000 Calories per day diet and to consume 4000 calories/day you need special appetizers?

How do you know this?
Have you already tried this on a week long hike?
How tall are you?
How heavy are you?
What is your body fat percentage?

I can think of two options:
1) In case you are a strong and a fit person, carrying 2 lb of food per day should not be a problem for you.
2) Otherwise I assume that you should have some spare body fat you can burn on a hike.

Yury:
Read the rest of the thread: the guy is ripped, and he knows what he is talking about.

Very cool to be building your own. Check out TLUD design. This is by a Chem. E. friend and colleague of mine. Good solid design and explanation. I have built and instructed on dozens. Scale that down to the size you want (it scales down to 6 oz. can) and you will have a real winner, especially in Ti. No need to double-wall, either, but you can. Clean, hot efficient, capable of simmering in second burn phase, will burn all your combustible trash and since it is a stove, should be useable anywhere w/trash and maybe with wood/litter.

saltydog, those are good links. That trip report is both inspiring and demoralizing. The "Yosemite Leg" link isn't about the JMT though, it's another loop. But it brings up a point worth making. As long as off-trail hiking is okay it's worth considering alternate sections just off the JMT. There are some really nice 2-3 day detours that reconnect with the trail.

Yury, you ask a lot of questions! I can carry the weight but I try to minimize my load where I can. I usually lose some body weight (probably a combination of fat and lean mass) but have found that I crash without enough food. I've quantified this for some trips. Just my experience.

What happened to that post about Nestle Nido? I've heard that's a great product.

I wanted to respond to the Nido guy as well. I buy it in double orders of the large cans online, use it breakfast lunch and dinner. Pancakes, shakes, Alfredo sauce, all mixed dry in advance. I've asked for it but have never seen it on the shelf.

Favorite Nido recipe: 3 Tbs Nido to a (small) packet of Jello Instant Pudding in a small pot or bowl. 1 cup water, blend till smooth, and nest the container in the snow for an hour. You'd swear it was ice cream. Think you could hit that after a few miles at 10,000 feet? Now that's energy dense.

As for off-trail: I have owed myself a trip to Lake South America since 1964, and if I don't get there next month, its a definite side tripper off the JMT in 2010. Reconnects by Tyndall or Wallace creek.

I can just about throw a stone and hit a store that sells Nido, but I'm in California. That said, I've never tried the stuff.

Lake South America is a very worthy side trip. What I really meant by off-trail and detour was a little different. What I had in mind was moderate cross-country terrain that skipped sections of the JMT and rejoined it later. That "Yosemite Leg" video where they went over Vogelsang to Lewis Creek made me think of one such section. Instead of continuing as they did, you can follow the Roper High Route just past Foerster Peak to Twin Island Lakes and then back to the JMT at Thousand Island Lake. This one detour probably outshines any section of the JMT, with the possible exception of the Evolution area.