Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Question on alitude sickness

A little about myself first and my experience with hiking, collecting summits and lack of altitude sickness until last Sunday, Oct. 7th 2012. This may be a bit long but I am trying to be as accurate as I can with the information.

I am 63, I had total knee replacement in both knees. Left knee 1/13/2011, right knee 4/7/2011. Decided I needed to do something with my new knees now that I was able to walk normally for the first time in about 15 years. I took up hiking the local foothills around my home in Socal. I'm not sure what got me interested in doing Mt Whitney but it became my goal. I went to some seminars at Rei and A16 that were great in preparing me for for my assault on Mt Whitney so I got a permit for August 27TH 2012. I started doing more and longer hikes and I joined some local "Meet Up" groups that were into hiking. Then on June 2nd I made it to the top of Mt Baldy, and over the next 3 months I did Baldy 3 more times, Mt Baden Powell, Mt San Jacinto, Mt San Gorgonio. Plus other hikes up but not to the summits of San Jacinto and San Gorgonio. Never had any signs or symptoms of altitude sickness.

I got permits for July 3rd 2012 for myself and climbing partners and we planned to go up the Whitney Trail as far as we could to just see what it was like to hike up it. I left my house in Socal at 3:30 am on July 3rd drove up to Lone Pine picked up my permit at 8:00 am met my climbing partners at 9:30 am and we hit the Whitney Trail about 11:00 am. We made it to Trail Camp at about 3:00 pm then came down and experienced no signs of altitude sickness.

For my August 27th attempt at making the summit of Mt Whitney I went up to the Lone Pine area on August 23rd and drove up to Horseshoe Meadows hiked around for a couple hours and then left to head to Mt White. I car camped at 8500 ft At Grand View camp ground that night and drove up to gate (11,777) on Mt white the next morning. I made the summmit (14,246) and back down again with no sign of altitude sickness. Went back to Lone Pine stayed there Saturday and went up to the Portal on Sunday (had one of Doug's awesome pancakes) and hiked a little ways up Whitney trail with my hiking partners and then back down to Lone Pine Hostel to rest up for the start of our hike to the summit of Whitney the next morning. We left at 1:45 am on the 27th but unfortunately one of my hiking partners got altitude sickness (very strong nausea, headache) at Trail Camp so he and his daughter went back down. I continued and made the summit (yea) and back down no signs of altitude sickness.

A friend of mine had a extra permit for Oct 7th and I said I would go with him. We went up and camped at the Portal on Oct. 4th. On the 5th we hiked up to Lone Pine Lake for a couple of hours and slept at the Portal that night. On the 6th we went to Horseshoe Meadows and walked a couple miles around the Meadows and back to the Portal to rest and sleep for our start at 12:30am on the 7th. Everything was going good until just passed Mirror Lake and I noticed I felt a bit tired but continued on up the trail. Around 11500 ft near Trail Meadow I started to get an upset stomach and had to stop and rest. After only going a short distance I needed to stop again then a short ways and stop and rest again. I started noticing that my footing wasn't normal and I was tripping over rocks and ledges more than normal. I never had a headache (but I never have had a headache).

So I experienced nausea, fatigue, unsteadiness and tripping. I decided I had better back go down. On the way down I met 2 Japanese hikers, I forgot their names, but luckily one of them had hurt his ankle so their pace was slow and I could keep up with them. I notice as I went down that I was completely concentrating on them and not on my steps. I was in a sort of trance but it seemed to be working so I just fixated on the person in front of me. On the way down I felt a bit of pressure in my head but it only lasted about 20 minutes or so then stopped. Everything was going well until they stopped at Lone Pine Lake, I thanked them for letting me come down with them. My nausea had been reduced so I left them and went on down by myself. As I was going down the trail my pace slowed and I started noticing I was wandering side to side as I walked. I stopped a few times and took my time but made it down ok and back to camp at the portal in one piece. After a short rest I felt pretty good so I left my climbing partners a note, packed up and headed back home to Socal. I got gas in Lone Pine headed South and in about 4 hours got home without any problems. I felt good the rest of the day and was not even that tired after I got home. I unpacked everything, put stuff away,
washed all my hiking things, did some chores around the house and walked the dog. I was full of energy so why couldn't I keep going up Whitney.

My question is does altitude sickness really hit that randomly? I acclimated well, hydrated well, got good solid rest before. Ate and hydrated as I hiked that morning but boom I got nailed. Did I miss something? Oh, I just hiked up Mt Baldy the 14th and no problem.

Thanks, I'll be back on Whitney next year in spite of what happened, it was fun up to the point of having go back down without making the summit. But I did summit August 27th, my knees work great and have never bothered me, so it's all good.

congratulations on the double knee! I took my 8 month old titanium R knee up and down Whitney in August 2012 as well. Aggravates me daily around home and work, but on the trail there is enough to distract me from the clunking and stiffness so that I can keep going, slower than before, but going.

we have had several reports here over the last few years of what sounds like sudden onset AMS or even its complications, HAPE and HACE. AMS normally presents with symptoms for a while before progressing, but can be sudden over literally a few minutes, and it can skip to more severe.

The fact that you had "mountaineer's foot' (can't put one in front of the other, slowing down/can't keep up with others) suggests you had AMS, although simple fatigue or illness can do that, too.

Some general unofficial rules:

mountaineer's foot + cough = early HAPE.
mountaineer's foot + ataxia (wandering off to side) = HACE

the fact that descent cured your ills is highly suggestive ( but not ironclad proof) that altitude illness was the problem.

TheMess, did you have a pancake before your Oct 7th attempt? You may have proved Doug's pancakes prevent AMS.

Thanks for the info h_lankford, I was sure that something wasn't right but since I don't get headaches the only thing that seemed to fit was the slight case of nausea. The stumbling along the trail was new. Can this just happen out of no where for what seems to have no known cause? Is there something I can do to prevent it in the future? Like I said I did all these other hikes with no symptoms at all and made the summit on August 27th 2012. Or is it just like the roll of the dice whether you get it or not?

I have had no problems with my knees, my reply when asked as to how they are doing is usually "What knees"? Hope yours doesn't bother you to much, it is really nice to be able to actually walk and do normal things again without gimping around.

FlaG8R, I did give thought and was planning on getting another of Doug's enormous pancakes but didn't have time, It has been given some serious thought though as to why I might of bonked this time. However I was able to enjoy a couple of his equally fantastic burgers and fries while I was there this time. Maybe the burgers and fries don't have power of the pancake.

there will be some others' advice as well here - the topic of altitude illness is a favorite

altitude illness is weird.

One rule is that "illness at altitude illness is altitude illness until proven otherwise." Descent worked for you.

Another rule is that some are prone to it and therefore have a ceiling that they cannot ascend through, even with prolonged acclimatization. That is true not just in humans but some animals as well. But...on the flip side, there are some who do just fine at altitude, then one day, bam, without warning it hits them, too. Edmund Hillary had it happen to him after Everest when he later was on Makalu.

My friend Bob had sudden onset ataxia, imbalanced, disoriented, and wandering off the trail on Kilimanjaro. Had to go down for fear of rapidly progressive HAPE which is fatal at the higher altitude on Kili compared to Whitney. He came back a year later and did just fine.

Others might rightfully say that if your symptoms had happened at sea level, then some other diagnosis like TIA (transient ischemic attack or small stroke) would be a possible explanation. Certainly if the symptoms were to recur, that diagnosis would then take center stage rather than altitude illness.

I am coming up on my first year anniversary with the TKR. Still not entirely happy, but will take it to 18,000 feet in Nov. Harvey

Thanks, that was what I was thinking and hoping. That was the first time I had ever experienced it. I've driven to the top of Pikes Peak a few times and have skied above 11000 ft several times and no effect. I just might do Mt White yet this year before it gets to cold, I know it doesn't get much snow. Whitney would be to much for me to try again this year with the snow it has already received.

I'm extremely happy with my knees no issues at all. I have found nothing I can't do with them. I had a excellent surgeon and who was also a great caring human being. Unfortunately he passed away last March from a motorcycle accident.

Thanks again, Terry

Hello Themess. Over the years I have noticed for me an increase in acclimating I must do in prep for Whitney. In the late 60's, early 70's I could drive up from socal and maybe get a couple hours sleep and start out. I would still get headaches, nausea and certainly tired but worked thru those issues.

Something that does help me regarding nausea is the use of ginger tablets. You can also use ginger candy/bits, but I prefer ginger tabs. Start taking a couple days before and have some with you on the hike. If nausea hits, I find the tabs remedy that within 10-20 minutes.

Went up to Whitney in late Sept 2011. Son, nephew and friends wanted to go and no one else had been up there before. Out of 6, 1 made it to the summit. I made it as far as Consultation Lake, which has now been renamed Consolation Lake, in honor of me! lol. Everyone else stopped at lower elevations.

After last years attempt, I was prepared to not attempt the summit again. Told my son and nephew I would stay at Portal in the future and keep the bruins out of our camp. Then unfortunately I had to read either here or in my Long Beach paper about a 73 year old who had just summited Whitney!We are going back up next summer,more prep hikes, better prepared and will not do it as a dayhike. Probably come over from Horseshoe as a multiday.I will be 65 then!

You were wise to turn around when you did. That is not the place to be experiencing the symptoms you were. Congrats on your new knees.

Regards,

Bob

Thanks Bob, I will have to look into the Ginger Tablets. And thanks for reminding me that I probably did the right thing coming down. One can't help but think maybe just a bit more rest and a ways up the trail everything would work itself out. I can't help but run the scenario through my mind everyday since and think it could of been different if I had just pushed on but probably not.

The main thing that still bothers me is that back in July I went straight from Socal at 3:00am in the morning to Trail Camp at 3:00pm that afternoon and had no ill effects and thought about going for the summit. We hadn't plan on that and this was just an exploratory hike we started late and just wanted to see what the trail was like. In all my training in the mtns in Socal and when I did summit in August I never experienced any problem. Puzzling.

Anyway I have the Mt Whitney bug now and will back as often as I can but like you I think I'll do the 2 days or hike in from the back side either North or South. The day hike is doable but I miss not being able to enjoy the scenery on the way up and down. I suppose if I was able to hike a bit faster then there would be plenty of daylight to enjoy the hike.

The new knees have open a whole new world to me. I never had much interest in hiking or backpacking but now it is my new passion.

Good luck with your next hike to Mt Whitney. 65 should be a good age to enjoy Whitney I know I will but then I'm still a kid I will only be 64.

Thanks again

Terry

Climbing pace is another huge factor. It's easy in one's excitement to outpace your ability to stay in a comfort zone. Perhaps your pace this last time out was a little too fast? I use a HRM religiously and monitor myself all the way up to make sure I stay within my limits because in altitude I can't always trust how I feel and my ability to maintain a proper pace (which will slow down gradually as you get higher, but the idea is not to hit that altitude "wall" by revving your "motor" too hard and for too long).

Ginger capsules work well for seasickness as well. One needs to start taking them the night before and then at breakfast in the morning. I have fished albacore in 10' seas, when everyone else was sick, with nary a symptom.

I wasn't overly excited but the rest of my group did seem fired up for the hike. Hmm, the pace, now that you mention it the group I was with did seem to have a pace that felt a little faster than my comfort zone. When I summited in August my climbing partner got sick at Trail Camp(he went back down with his daughter) and I went on to the summit by myself, set my own pace. When I summited Mt White 3 days before I did Whitney in August I did it by myself at my own pace.

Bruce you just might be on to something here, the speed of the hiking pace didn't occur to me. That just might explain why when everything seemed to be the same as in my August summit, I didn't make it this time on Oct.6th I will keep this in mind for the future, thank you.

I've recently been hiking a lot at altitude and did the Mountaineer's Route on October 8. From my experiences I have adopted a pet theory that a mild headache means I'm probably dehydrated and everything else (nausea, lack of balance, fatigue) means I'm probably not eating correctly. Of course, if drinking and eating correctly does not solve the problem, then it's time to descend.

I'm skeptical about your rate of ascent being the issue. I doubt a relatively minor change of pace would cause such problems.

Because you said you were hydrating and did not have a headache, to me it sounds more like a diet issue. You may have been very low on electrolytes. Do you put electrolyte tablets in your water or supplement some other way during strenuous hikes? Someone recommended Ginger pills, which are good for potassium and magnesium. I use Nuun tablets, fruit smoothies, bananas, guavas, oranges, and coconut milk.

Also, when I did the Mountaineer's Route, I completely lost my appetite and had to force myself to eat. I wonder if you ate enough during your hike. A Clif bar every couple hours was enough to keep me going until lunchtime on the summit.

Going up just a little too fast can make a huge difference between getting altitude sickness and not getting it. Especially among older people, who have a much lower maximum HR and are often hiking with younger people who have a faster pace. That means they are hiking at a higher percentage of their max HR and once you do that too much and for too long then you are done for the day.

I have hiked Whitney many times and I cannot overemphasize the importance of hiking within one's own comfort zone in order to avoid hitting that altitude wall. In groups, that means hiking at the pace of the slowest hiker or splitting up to hike separately. This is especially true of older people.

Damn am I an "older person"? Yeah maybe, but I do appreciate all the analysis of my last hike up Whitney. I'll take them all into account when I do my next ascent of Whitney next year. Live and learn I guess, thanks again to all.

Terry

Well you said you were 63, Bro. I meant "older person" being older than the norm. But anyway no offense intended, and to be even more frank, I am in awe of someone like you dayhiking Whitney with two knee replacements at that age. You must be in great shape. I'm an older person myself 55 and I really struggle to get up that mountain and I'll be very happy to do what you've done 8 years down the road. Good luck next year to you!

I'm not writing this to brag on myself but to point out that there are a lot of us old folks who are still tromping around the mountains. I am 75* with an artificial hip. This August, when I did a 1-day up Whitney and back, I hit the summit with David, from Denver, who is 72 (and has done 50 of the 54 Colorado 14s). Last Monday I came down off Baldy with a 71 year old guy. Almost every time I summit Baldy I run into a Korean man who starts the conversation by saying, "I'm 74."

Before I had my hip replaced 10 years ago I thought I was done hiking forever. Since then, I have actually gotten stronger every year. This past summer was my best hiking season since the replacement, with Whitney and a Colorado 14, hikes in the Canadian Rockies and Glacier NP, and Baldy almost every week I'm not somewhere else.

I'm not sure what it is. My father was a wreck by the time he was 55. The possibility of replacing worn out joints is part of the story. Or maybe it's all the Strontium 90 our generation got in our milk from a-bomb tests.

So, all you 50 and 60 year olds may well have lots of years of good trails ahead of you. I hope to meet you there.

*When I posted about my summiting Whitney in August it sounded like I was 73. What I meant was that I was 73 two years ago when I swore I would never try Whitney again.

I met that 74-year-old Korean man on Baldy a couple weeks ago. He was quite friendly and shared his potatoes with me. Apparently he hikes Baldy two or three times a week and has summited over 150 times. He gave the specific number, but I forgot. He brought his wife up that day, too.

That's awesome to know and very, very encouraging to me to keep doing my yearly Whitney dayhike (I've done it every year since 1996, and my wife since 2001) as long as I possibly can. Fortunately all my joints are still in good shape, but from the sound of it, it's no major disadvantage to have a replacement part or two, should I happen require it someday. Kudos to all who keep truckin' up the mountains no matter how old they are!

I'm up climbing or trail running Baldy at least once per week or so. I too have ran into that Korean man often. His name is Sam Kim and he certainly is friendly, proud, and strong. Last January I ran into him at the summit via the Ski Hut Trail with his two grandson aged 6 and 8. Both were just as excited to be up there with their grandpa. Yes, he reminds me of his age every time I see him but that guys is so full of joy for the mountains that you can't help but to be happy for him.

Bob Pickering who I have climbed with often this past Spring/Summer is 63... and he kicks my ass every time. I'm so priviledged to have such a great mentor willing to show me the ropes and guide me through some boneheaded mistakes.. No textbook can ever teach me what first hand experience can offer. With that.. we need more snow! -C.

The age or new knees factor isn't why I started the post. I was puzzled as to why with all the other successful summits I had made that I failed on this one. I think I have a better idea as to why things might of not worked out for me on the last attempt on Whitney. I still think of it as a big deal but with a few more summits I am sure I will be as nonchalant about doing it as so many are on this board. I know I thought the first time I went up Baldy it was a big accomplishment but now it is just another pleasant little day hike.

Speaking of the Korean Gentleman I am pretty sure I have seen him on Baldy too and share his excitement and joy to be in the mtns.

I wasn't trying to brag about the fact that I made it up Whitney with knee replacements. But the fact that before I had them I had no desire to do any hiking or backpacking. Now with my new knees it is about the only thing I think about.

Yes if you need replacements in the future don't think that your active life style stops then. I put off having mine replaced for about 10 years because I kept getting info that said you could pretty much kiss your active life style goodbye. Get a golf cart go play golf and be happy you can do that(boring). That has all changed in the last few years, joint replacements and surgical techniques are much much better now. I can do any and everything I want to do. The main thing is to have excellent surgeon.

The age factor isn't a problem either. There is an 85 year old fellow in my motocross club that had his knees replaced when he was about 81-82 came back out after that and still races and can even be seen doing some of the double jumps. We have a very active 70+ age group class(novice,armature,expert and masters), also I think the 60+ age group classes are the largest in the club now. There are several others in the club that have had joint replacements and race on a regular bases, some of them are just kids in their 50's.

I'm not planning on setting any records or impress any one I just want to be able to enjoy my new passion for hiking in the mtns. Maybe some of that is because the first 38 years of my life were spent in Iowa, love the place but no mtns.

Thanks, Terry