Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board The Physiology of Old Age and Altitude

2 years ago, when I was 75, I hiked the MWMT to the top. It wasn't easy but I had no special difficulty.

Last year, I made it to the top again but shouldn't have. I completely ran out of gas at about 13K and if I had a grain of intelligence I would have turned back then. It was only stubbornness and luck that got me to the summit and back down safety.

The problem last year was a sudden loss of energy. I wasn't gasping for breath, I had no symptoms of altitude sickness. It was just really difficult to gather the strength to put one foot in front of the other and to control small muscle movements.

I wanted to find out if this was something particular to that day - maybe I hadn't slept well, wasn't eating the right stuff, something like that, or a permanent change in me. To answer the question I went to White Mtn. last weekend.

I started off feeling fine and moving easily most of the way up to the observatory. But from there on, descending to the meadow, I felt depleted and knew I wasn't going to make it to the summit.

My non-scientific observation of my own physical processes made me think that I'm not using oxygen as efficiently as I used to. My crude understanding is that there is an exchange at the cellular level: oxygen in, fatigue toxins out, so at 13K, when there is less oxygen in the air I'm breathing and I'm not using it well, I run a deficit.

I had brought the Magazine section from last Sunday's NY Times to read in camp that evening. By chance, there is an article in it about mitochondrial DNA which seems to confirm my observation. The article is about manipulating mitochondria to avoid inherited diseases but 2 statements seemed relevant to my situation:

"... the DNA in mitochondria, which use oxygen to turn food into energy...When we stop breathing, our mitochondria stop working, and that's how we die." [Unless we fall off a mountain first - my note.]

"Also, as we get older, the mitochondria in all our cells become less efficient at generating power...."

Kim Tingley, "One Child, Three Parents," NYT Magazine, 6/29/14.

This isn't a huge emotional problem for me. Mainly, I find the changes in my body due to aging really fascinating to observe. I don't have to hike Whitney any more. (I'm 5 summits for 8 attempts lifetime.) There's a lot of beautiful country below 13K and I still hike Mt. Baldy (10K) most weeks when I'm not farther afield. I assume, though, that this is a continuing process and sooner or later 13K will be too high, then 12K, etc.

I'm posting this because I think I am one of the older people on this board and others, who are 5, 10, 15 years younger than me might be interested in the effects of aging on hiking ability. I don't know if there are exercises or other interventions that might slow the process, and the process is certainly not the same for everyone. Remember, Hulda Crooks hiked the MWMT until she was 91.

I am interested in the comments and corrections in my weak science that some of the people on the board who have a stronger background in physiology might offer.

An actual physiology question! But first, those who know me know that...it is time for mountaineering literature quotations.

I had mountaineer’s foot - inability at times to put one in front of the other.
HW Tilman, Two Mountains and a River page 525


As for physiology, there a many factors going on with age. There is sarcopenia (lack of muscle), the mitochondrial efficiency you mentioned, unexplainable and explainable other factors too numerous to explore here.

Did you try Diamox? whether you have needed it in the past, whether you had AMS symptoms or not, there is evolving evidence that it has a previously unrecognized direct effect on reducing the pulmonary hypertension of high altitude independent of its help with AMS. I don't know if that was part of your issue, or if the benefit is significant enough to help, or if it is just this next quote (with my underline):

Mountains are not a race track. In a race there can be only one winner. On a mountain everyone beyond a certain indefinite standard of ability and strength can reach the summit.
Nicholas Clinch, A Walk in the Sky page 5

Hi Burt,

I am 7 years behind you, so am interested in your observations/anecdotal experiences.

For me, I have not yet felt the loss of strength you mentioned, but I have noticed that my tolerance for pain is certainly diminished. It is not so much can I do it, but rather or not I'm willing to suffer the pain involved Last summer I hiked up Old Army and down New Army. I was within a couple of miles of Langley, but just did not want to hike in the sand, so I said "screw it" I could have/should have gone on, but the objective was not worth the pain (at least on that day).

I also find it is more difficult to "get back into shape". I had my shoulder replaced last October, and prior to that had not been able to ride my bike for nearly one year due to discomfort of shoulder pain. I started back on the bike in Feb./March, and am not yet back to my prior level of conditioning (but getting closer). This is also true for hiking. I do not seem to see any limits, but again, the question is how much pain am I willing to endure.

I did a web search on "physiological decline with age" and was presented with several graphs and links to articles on this subject. My "casual" reading of a couple of these articles:
http://jap.physiology.org/content/94/2/764 See Fig. 3 in particular
http://www.trainingbible.com/joesblog/labels/recovery.html scroll down to the graph on marathon record holders

is that 70 seems to be a bit of a "tipping point". Both of these articles relate to endurance activities, so perhaps a good match for hiking.

How is your "motivation"? Perhaps changing the nature of your hikes might help this. If you mainly hike solo, perhaps hooking up with another hiker of similar strengths might make the events more fun/competitive/enjoyable. I think that is true for me. I've mainly hiked solo, but am now considering looking for similar minded folks whose company I might enjoy.

Regards,

John

Burt, I should have added

Do the simple stuff first..I am sure you know: good hydration, frequent snacks, but also... mandatory 5 min breaks every hour going up and down, whether you think you need to or not! Over a 12 hr day, that only adds 1 hour. So what?

Then there is the simple medical stuff: be sure you are not anemic, etc. And a cardiology checkup is not just an EKG.

I am 63, total knee 2011, am slowing down for sure, but did Whitney again 8 months later.
Yep John, deconditioning is much faster these days.

I'm one of the message board people w/ a particular interest in this topic, though I'm not nearly as old as Lankford. (Why, I'm a mere 61.)

I don't doubt the wisdom of the advice to take "mandatory 5 min breaks every hour going up and down" but can you explain why, please? I know that when I feel like I'm going strong, I usually keep on forging ahead (though I am prepared to accept that this isn't the smartest way to deal with the rigors of the hike.)

Great question.
Some people may be able to go all day long. Others, to use a runners expression, hit the wall. Once that happens, it may take an hour, a day, or weeks to recover. At extreme altitude (by definition over 18,000 ft) full recovery requires descent. Some can never get there at all, some can stay up there months, but no one can stay there permanently. The most famous study of this was Griffith Pugh’s Silver Hut 1960-1961.

Some of the many factors for older people include loss of muscle mass, stamina, heat intolerance, and so forth. Some things are simple. Older people do not sweat as much, and may not be aware they are overheating. A mandatory slower pace and/or breaks gives a cool down.

Many people talk about their maximum O2 uptake (MVO2). But you can only sustain this level of exercise for a minute. A more useful term is the anaerobic threshold (AT) . This is the heart rate level at which you can sustain exercise before hitting the wall. For top cyclists, it can be 170, for average-fit middle age maybe 140. (This also turns out to be the comfort zone for high altitude mountaineers, but in part for other reasons) . For older people it may be 120 or less. Some people cannot feel their heart rate. A pulse watch/alarm is a great tool. So for both the heat and the heart rate issues, a mandatory slower pace and/or breaks gives a cool down. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

One of my favorite topics is the affect of over-exertion and high altitude on the lungs, pulmonary circulation, and right side of the heart. Below are some tidbits from my article in revision for the journal High Altitude Medicine and Biology. Right ventricular (RV) heart failure can be rapid in some individuals. Here are three examples of RV heart involvement in skiers, runners, and travelers, some of whom who hit the wall for this specific reason.

1 Skiers. In 1943 British physiologist Griffith Pugh evaluated military ski trainees at ‘The Cedars’ Mountain Warfare Training Centre at a moderate altitude of 6,890ft (2,100 m) in Lebanon. The tallest peak climbed was 10,095 ft (3,077m). Pugh found that after only a few days of hard ski-mountaineering two men had dilated RVs on physical examination, the total rising to 10 of 33 after two weeks.

2 Runners. Before and after the 1994 Hardrock ultramarathon in Colorado at altitudes of 2,350 to 4,300m, echocardiography was performed. Rapid onset pulmonary hypertension, RV dilatation and hypokinesia developed in a third of studied participants, and reversed in one day.

3 Travelers. In 2007 a mountaineer within the first 24 hrs after arriving at 3,700m in Bolivia developed shortness of breath and cardiac signs of pulmonary hypertension. Echocardiography showed an elevated pulmonary artery mean pressure and RV dilatation. All findings resolved with descent.

A bit of overkill with my answer, but once again, pace, breaks, and a pulse watch might be all that is needed. Harvey

I really have to jump in with my 2 cents worth on “mandatory breaks.” I think it’s MUCH better to go a little slower and never stop just for the sake of stopping. If you can’t go 10-60 minutes without stopping to catch your breath, YOU’RE GOING TOO FAST! Slow down, and forego the break. Of course, if you need to eat, drink, add or remove a layer, take a photo, take a crap, take a leak, or look at a map, you stop for that purpose. Otherwise, it’s much more efficient to keep moving. Did I mention that if you have to stop to catch your breath, you are going too fast? When I did my Whitney Double (four years ago at age 61), I only took one rest break on the trail the whole day.

Bob, just for clarification, he did say he was not gasping for breath. His symptoms and my replies had more to do with peripheral muscle fatigue, not cardiorespiratory fatigue from going too fast. There is a difference.

I have a friend who is still hiking at 74. He will never sit down on breaks. His quads are weak, so he feels he exerts himself too much getting up and down and/or taking off his pack. So he stands still to rest. Different scenario, too. Harvey

Thanks to you all for giving my posting such serious consideration. A few responses:

Harry, When I'm hiking at my best (and this is aside from the question of going for an extreme goal like the Whitney summit) I get into some sort of altered mental state. I would say that I hike WITH myself, rather than BY myself. I most enjoy it when I am on a trail for 8 - 10 hours, setting a steady pace and taking few breaks. Two weeks ago I did the 20 miles Baldy Village - Mt Baldy - Devil's Backbone - 3Ts - Icehouse Canyon circuit. It took me 12 hours and I made 4 stops, including lunch. I wasn't pushing, I was just enjoying being there and, especially, the heightened awareness of my body. I think paying close attention to the time so I could take a break every hour would interfere with that. I'm not questioning the validity of the science behind your recommendation for a break every hour but the loss of connection with the trail may be more than I'm willing to pay.

(The extreme of my experience of hiking with myself was a time when I was about 30 and I solo hiked the JMT and HST. Besides greeting people I met on the trail every day, for those 3 weeks I was essentially alone. When I came out it felt very strange to have to enter into a sustained conversation with someone else.)

I will ask my primary MD about Diamox. He is also a hiker so I expect he will be able to advise me.

John, My original post was not about a problem to be solved, it was an observation and a question. I find being old fascinating, both the physical and mental changes in me and in the way the world relates to me. I'm trying to pay careful attention to all this. After all, it's the only chance I'll ever have to experience what it means to be old - there's no second chance.

I do sometimes hike with a companion, usually for special reasons. Right now, I am going up with a woman who has done a little hiking but wants to do more. I am showing her trails and talking with her about equipment and trail manners. I have done this with a few people and I enjoy it. But it's an entirely different experience than, and doesn't substitute for, being by myself.

Burt

Burt, very intriguing posts. Good, thoughtful responses as well. I only hope that when I'm 76 I have the stamina to summit a mountain like Whitney. I'm staring at 57 in a couple of months, so I've got a long way to go to emulate your accomplishment.

I'm, so far, fortunate in that all the moving parts (knees, hips) still work fine, but what I've found in the last few years is that the cycle of falling out of hiking shape and then returning to it has become tougher. I have a nearby mountain that has been my training site for about 15 years. I've done this six-mile, 2K vf route hundreds and hundreds of times, usually with a stopwatch and record-keeping, so there's a solid baseline for detailed comparison over the years.

What I've found personally is that when I'm "in shape" in my mid-fifties I can often meet or beat my best personal times from years prior. What is becoming increasingly difficult is moving from that sluggy, out-of-shape stage back into acceptable hiking condition. This usually happens once or twice each year as training falls off or ceases for a few weeks, for whatever reason (weather, work, illness, family demands, plain laziness, etc). It seems to be taking longer and requiring more effort each time to "get back in shape". I've also succumbed to a few of those screw-it moments John describes, that I never gave in to in my forties or even early fifties. Heat and humidity also seem to affect me more now, which is not what you want in the South when prime Sierra training time is the oppressive summer. Lots of pre-dawn starts nowadays.

I've chalked this up to simply getting older, but the physiological logic interests me as well. I plan to keep hiking for years and the more I understand the biochemical and biomechanical foundations of the aging phenomenon, the better I can adjust, respond and prepare myself to meet that goal.

And I have to credit Bob P with being the person who finally got it through my thick head to concentrate on pace, which I think becomes more important as you age. My training I described is really speed-oriented at low elevation, and that doesn't translate well to the Sierra altitude or sustained gains you find there. I was constantly fighting myself on Sierra, Rocky Mtn, or Cascade trips to slow down and not stop for a blow every 30 minutes. My first hike with Bob was filled with tons of great advice and, more importantly, the constant reminder, "Slow down, Gary, you're going too fast - keep a pace you can maintain indefinitely." Since that time, I've been much more conscious of my personal pacing. I doubt I'll ever heed his advice to avoid hourly breaks, but I do take them standing now more often than not.

Hi Burt,

Yes, guilty as charged. I guess I was looking at your post through my own eyes rather than through yours. I'm still trying to hold father time at bay, and do find that "feeling good/strong" is also about my mental state, and not just physical issues (diet, exercise, etc....). The easiest times I have had with Whitney always involved other people. In 2012 I took my daughter and a family friend up the main trail, and I was "energized". Mainly due (IMO) to sharing the experience with my daughter and friend (and also feeling some responsibility for the outcome of the hike). I also did the mountaineer's route that same year. Again, the excitement of a new challenge, and also hiking with a friend, made that trip a great joy.

Regards,

John

I reached the summit in two days in 1999, fell 2 miles short on my first day hike in 2002 and made it in a day a few years later. I will be 69 in less than a month and plan a day hike in Sept. of 2015, if I can figure out the permit system.

I love this discussion and hope I can report success next year.

I have experienced symptoms similar to those reported in the original post, but not at altitude. My wife and I were training for the Rachel Carson Challenge near Pittsburgh (elevation between 900 and 1200 ft.), when I just ran out of gas like that. I attributed my situation to heat, because altitude was not a factor.

High temperatures cause thin air, but not anything like 13,000 feet. I find it interesting, but unpleasant to observe these changes related to gaining geezer status.

I have begun my training for next year's attempt already and plan to lose more than 40 lbs. I will use a combination of walking, hiking and biking to prepare. I don't have access to high altitude hiking, but have lots of access to hot weather here in Louisville KY.

Many interesting questions, and for me right now, so little time to write. As H. Lankford has mentioned, many different reasons for the change in performance. Let me address one quickly and simply, at least for now...sarcopenia, or the loss of muscle mass that occurs with age. This is a big area of research in the exercise community, and much has been done over the last 10 years. Most people are aware that with the loss of muscle mass comes a loss of a certain amount of strength..muscle mass isn't the only variable in strength but certainly a large part. We can feel it when we try to lift a heavy backpack, push ourselves up a particularly steep rock step, pull ourselves up an overhang...those and of course other strength-related tasks are the more obvious evidence of change. However, what is not usually appreciated is the loss of aerobic power, ie VO2 Max, with the loss of muscle mass. Quite simply, the muscle that you utilize in any given aerobic task will govern what your VO2, or oxygen uptake, is. While it is obvious that a high-level marathoner is not concerned with muscle mass for the most part, as we age, the loss of muscle mass begins to affect our VO2 Max, such that there is a diminishing of the aerobic power that we can exert. In other words, your engine goes from being a V8 to a 4 cylinder and eventually a scooter. All the aerobic training in the world will not halt the decrease if nothing is done to decrease the loss of muscle mass and you have nothing to train. This is a focus of much recent research. The moral of the story? Start incorporating resistance training into your schedule...and yes, this includes upper body as well. If you do not already do this, you should notice a difference once you do this. And I'm not talking aerobic class weights here...get on a real program.

Hi Burt from a fellow older person Doug

Hi there Doug! I don't think of you as older, more like a mountain elder, one of the keepers of the sacred places.

I just returned from a 4-day backpack in Humphreys Basin - one of my favorite places on earth. I camped at Desolation Lake for 2 nights - didn't see another person from the time I left the main trail until I returned to it. Did some route finding around the lakes northwest of Desolation. Despite cold, rain, and hail it was a great trip.

I am still hitting a wall around 12K. I have a doctor's appointment next week and will try to get a Rx for Diamox.

I'll come in for one of your fabulous gluten-free burger or chicken plates one of these days.

Burt,

Did you descend from Piute Pass to North lake on Thursday Aug 14?

I dayhiked North lake to the pass and back. On my ascent, I noticed a very slow moving older man stopping frequently on his descent He was accompanied by a younger man perhaps in his 20s. I was surprised to catch up and pass them on my way down, probably about 1 or 2 pm. With all due respects, what I saw did not look like something Diamox would help. It looked like plain old fatigue or age.

Hi Harvey, I did come down the Piute Pass trail yesterday but I don't think I am the older man you saw. I was by myself. I got to the pass from the Basin about 11:00, stashed some of my heavy stuff under a rock, and went over to Muriel Lake for a scenic lunch. I think I started down from the pass about 1:30.

I was stopping more often than I would like but that was due to discomfort from my pack, not fatigue. I need to take the pack back into REI for some adjustment or replacement. That's not to deny that I was feeling fatigue, but fatigue wasn't the main thing going on with me.

Were the old-timer and young fellow coming down Piute Pass hauling any climbing gear? If so, perhaps this is a Fred Beckey sighting. Doug Sr and Myles might know if there have been any recent sightings of Mr Beckey, now 91, in the area.

Beckey has been known to come down from Seattle around August to climb in the High Sierras. While in his eighties, I have encountered him three times up the North Fork.

On our most recent encounter, Fred was reclining on a slab near Iceberg Lake and appeared lifeless. A young fellow and his girlfriend approached and asked if they could be of assistance. Fred showed renewed signs of life. He checked out the young man's girlfriend awhile. Finally, Fred noted that he was just resting before continuing on to the Fishhook!

In the University of Life, I consider Mr Beckey a Professor of Physiology. Burt, shoot Fred an email with your aging/physiology questions. He might have some unpublished findings or secrets to share. Otherwise, returning to conventional sources on the topic, try the Bible (Wilderness Medicine by Paul Auerbach), specifically the chapter "Elders in the Wilderness."

Burt, best wishes and hope you have many more hikes. As Muir said, "Climb the mountains and get their good tidings."

Jim

Burt I saw a bear can and a few items a few feet vertically south of the pass. I only stayed there 10 minutes. We missed each other by a tiny bit.

My legs were still tired from our recent exploits including the 20 mile rain/hail exit forced march with backpacks from Tyndall creek over Forester and Kearsarge to Onion V on Monday. In fact, the 6.5 hr round trip it took me to do Piute at 11,500 ft was the same as the 6.5 hr roundtrip from Guitar to Whitney a few days earlier. Both were similar length dayhikes, but with less altitude gain/loss and less maximum height, the Piute route took just as long. My calves were no longer sore from that 20 miler, they just did not have the life or spontaneity It is hard to push unwilling flesh up the mountain.

Harvey, I'm sorry we were so close but missed meeting each other. How would I recognize you? Do you have a book of appropriate mountaineer's quotes sticking out of your pocket?

I'm easy to ID. I always use 2 poles and carry a red Osprey pack. Up to a few years ago if the subject of my age came up people would usually say, You don't look that old. They don't bother saying that anymore. And there's my hearing aids. They're the obvious kind that ride behind my ears, not the discrete ones that are advertised, Nobody will know you're wearing hearing aids. I don't know why I'm supposed to be ashamed to be wearing HAs. In fact, lousy hearing is a great excuse when I say something strange. (David Lodge, the English author, says that people react to blindness as tragic, to deafness as comic.)

Anyway, I do hope the next time we're on the same trail we don't just miss each other. It would be a pleasure to meet you.

By the way, did you see the 6 year-old girl hiking with her family? She was having a ball. I get a kick out of seeing young kids in the mountains (except when they act like they would rather be anywhere else).